How can a nuclear power plant create a hydrogen explosion?

[Kid Eager]

Ok, you mean so hot that the metal melts. The strange thing is that that kind of property sounds dangerous and it's odd that zirconium is allowed to be used in nuclear reactors. I thought the safety requirements were harder than that for nuclear power plants.

lol^lol. "react" /= "melt" Fail^fail

 

[Dave Rogers]

Ok, you mean so hot that the metal melts. The strange thing is that that kind of property sounds dangerous and it's odd that zirconium is allowed to be used in nuclear reactors.

What would you propose that would do the same job as zirconium, but more safely?

Dave

 

[Craig4]

Ok, you mean so hot that the metal melts. The strange thing is that that kind of property sounds dangerous and it's odd that zirconium is allowed to be used in nuclear reactors. I thought the safety requirements were harder than that for nuclear power plants.

The melting this is very important though. It's how you get the metal in the shape you want it to be in so it's useful.

 

[Anders Lindman]

What would you propose that would do the same job as zirconium, but more safely?

Dave

I propose that in order to allow nuclear power plants to be built in the first place, they have to fulfill specific safety requirements.

A scenario like this would not do:

Nuclear Engineer: We will have to use zirconium in the reactor, is that ok with you?

Safety Inspection Official: Is it safe?

NE: Safe enough, I guess.

SIO: So, it will not cause explosions and things like that? Ha ha ha.

NE: Ha ha. No, I certainly hope not. Using a material that could cause explosions in a nuclear power plant would be crazy.

SIO. It sure would.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I propose that in order to allow nuclear power plants to be built in the first place, they have to fulfill specific safety requirements.

A scenario like this would not do:

Nuclear Engineer: We will have to use zirconium in the reactor, is that ok with you?

Safety Inspection Official: Is it safe?

NE: Safe enough, I guess.

SIO: So, it will not cause explosions and things like that? Ha ha ha.

NE: Ha ha. No, I certainly hope not. Using a material that could cause explosions in a nuclear power plant would be crazy.

SIO. It sure would.

Zirconium doesn't cause explosions.

 

[Anders Lindman]

Zirconium doesn't cause explosions.

The root cause of the hydrogen production is claimed to be oxidation of zirconium when hot and exposed to steam.

 

[Kid Eager]

I propose that in order to allow nuclear power plants to be built in the first place, they have to fulfill specific safety requirements.

A scenario like this would not do:

Nuclear Engineer: We will have to use zirconium in the reactor, is that ok with you?

Safety Inspection Official: Is it safe?

NE: Safe enough, I guess.

SIO: So, it will not cause explosions and things like that? Ha ha ha.

NE: Ha ha. No, I certainly hope not. Using a material that could cause explosions in a nuclear power plant would be crazy.

SIO. It sure would.

So, Anders - given that you have dispensed with zirconium as unsuitable, what do you suggest they use in lieu?

After all, your in-depth knowledge of metallurgy and nuclear power station design has caused you to eliminate the use of zirconium...

 

[Mr Zog]

Also Anders, don't forget any other material you choose has to be able to cope with the conditions inside a nuclear reactor.

The properties of Zirconium make it the best to use because fuel rods have to last for six years or more in a high temperature, high pressure, high radiation environment without failure.

But one of the main reasons Zirconium is picked it that no other metal can match zirconium's low neutron absorption qualities.

So please explain what else should be used? from reading around there is a lot of money being spent on finding alternatives, so you could make yourself rich!

 

[Anders Lindman]

So, Anders - given that you have dispensed with zirconium as unsuitable, what do you suggest they use in lieu?

After all, your in-depth knowledge of metallurgy and nuclear power station design has caused you to eliminate the use of zirconium...

I question if the safety of nuclear power plants has been sufficiently guaranteed from the beginning if only zirconium can be used. The risk of hydrogen explosions sounds rather dangerous to me.

 

[Anders Lindman]

Also Anders, don't forget any other material you choose has to be able to cope with the conditions inside a nuclear reactor.

The properties of Zirconium make it the best to use because fuel rods have to last for six years or more in a high temperature, high pressure, high radiation environment without failure.

But one of the main reasons Zirconium is picked it that no other metal can match zirconium's low neutron absorption qualities.

So please explain what else should be used? from reading around there is a lot of money being spent on finding alternatives, so you could make yourself rich!

If only zirconium can be used, are nuclear power plants safe enough?

 

[Mr Zog]

If only zirconium can be used, are nuclear power plants safe enough?

Yes... Look at the number of nuclear incidents and the casualties caused by each one, then look at other power generation methods and the incidents relating to them, I'd start with Hydroelectric plants if i was you.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I question if the safety of nuclear power plants has been sufficiently guaranteed from the beginning if only zirconium can be used. The risk of hydrogen explosions sounds rather dangerous to me.

That's what hydrogen recombiners are for.

 

[Kid Eager]

I question if the safety of nuclear power plants has been sufficiently guaranteed from the beginning if only zirconium can be used. The risk of hydrogen explosions sounds rather dangerous to me.

Oh, I see. Just Asking Questions....

 

[Sunstealer]

Ok, you mean so hot that the metal melts. The strange thing is that that kind of property sounds dangerous and it's odd that zirconium is allowed to be used in nuclear reactors. I thought the safety requirements were harder than that for nuclear power plants.

Well that's why us materials engineers are such irresponsible and dangerous people. If it wasn't for laymen with no knowledge of the subject shouting, "That doesn't feel right!" or "Sounds wrong to me!" we could get away with making everything in the world from your mobile phone to jet engines to nuclear plants out of play dough.

Do a materials science or metallurgy degree and find out. There's only one module taught world wide and that's Play Dough 101. The rest of the time is either spent twiddling thumbs or in the pub.

To hell with decades of research and Materials Selection!

 

[Sunstealer]

I question if the safety of nuclear power plants has been sufficiently guaranteed from the beginning if only zirconium can be used. The risk of hydrogen explosions sounds rather dangerous to me.

Actually if you knew anything about the subject you'd know that stainless steels are used for fuel rods too in some reactor designs.

CFCCs are also being studied to replace metallic fuel rods. Damn those pesky materials scientists trying to improve your life by selecting the best material for the job in any application.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Aluminum will even ignite and burn in air if you get it hot enough to break down the oxide layer.

IIRC the British Navy encountered this phenomenon during the Falklands War.

It doesn't actually, however this is a widely believed miscomprehension about aluminium. In reality you can happily melt the stuff and cast it without it catching fire. It's also a commonly held, but incorrect, belief about the Falklands War. In fact the ships that many people claim had Al fires, for instance the Sheffield, where actually made of steel.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Ok, you mean so hot that the metal melts. The strange thing is that that kind of property sounds dangerous and it's odd that zirconium is allowed to be used in nuclear reactors. I thought the safety requirements were harder than that for nuclear power plants.

We're not talking "melts", and if the metal gets hot enough to start reacting with water, then you already have a problem, it's not something it does under normal conditions.

In newer reactors it's also something that is catered for, in that on the chance possiblity that there is a reaction, the Hydrogen can be captured and recombined with oxygen catalytically rather than explosively, however, being 40 years old these reactors were missing this system. It still wouldn't have been an issue had they vented the gas externally, but concerned about venting nuclear material made them decide to retain the gas inside the reactor building to decay before they released it, and so allowed for the build-up of Hydrogen and resulting explosion.

 

[Mr Zog]

It doesn't actually, however this is a widely believed miscomprehension about aluminium. In reality you can happily melt the stuff and cast it without it catching fire. It's also a commonly held, but incorrect, belief about the Falklands War. In fact the ships that many people claim had Al fires, for instance the Sheffield, where actually made of steel.

Interesting I hadn't realised that as that 'myth' seems very common around here (here being Sheffield!). I had always been told the Sheffield was due to Aluminium.

But a quick google shows you are correct, thanks.

"Burning & Fire Retardance: Some critics believe that aluminum will burn, thereby making it a less desirable material for military ships. But aluminum as used in marine structural applications does not burn and is not toxic. According to a Department of Navy report, media-reports of aluminum ship damage “in every case was caused by either fuel fires or massive explosions, and in some instances included ships with steel superstructures improperly reported as aluminum.”1"

 

[Anders Lindman]

Actually if you knew anything about the subject you'd know that stainless steels are used for fuel rods too in some reactor designs.

CFCCs are also being studied to replace metallic fuel rods. Damn those pesky materials scientists trying to improve your life by selecting the best material for the job in any application.

That's interesting. When I read about it quickly on the web I got the vague impression that maybe some nuclear power plants use other material than zirconium, but as often I was too lazy to research it further.

Hmm... Japanese nuclear disaster - hydrogen explosion, blamed on zirconium, and the Three Mile Island accident - hydrogen explosion, blamed on zirconium. Could it be that the hydrogen in reality came from water fuel reactors? And that they have made up fast-oxidation through steam for zirconium since it's such an unusual metal.

 

[Craig4]

That's interesting. When I read about it quickly on the web I got the vague impression that maybe some nuclear power plants use other material than zirconium, but as often I was too lazy to research it further.

Hmm... Japanese nuclear disaster - hydrogen explosion, blamed on zirconium, and the Three Mile Island accident - hydrogen explosion, blamed on zirconium. Could it be that the hydrogen in reality came from water fuel reactors? And that they have made up fast-oxidation through steam for zirconium since it's such an unusual metal.

No.