How 9/11 was done

[9/11-investigator]

You are wrong. In fact, I specifically asked you whether waterboarding, that's WATERBOARDING

I am sorry for my poor English. I should have known that it is waterboarding, rather than water boarding, even if the spelling checker of this forum says so. If my limited command of English is of any nuisance to you we can continue in either Dutch, German of French. Wat je maar wilt. Wie du möchtest, si ty veut.

I've debunked the dishonest nonsense in the first link in this thread; the second one doesn't work, but from your heading it appears to be the usual rubbish copiously debunked on these forums.

Here is the second link again.

As usual, you are wrong. Not only do I condemn the practice, I have not referred to any confessions so extracted as evidence, talking instead about al Qaeda videos, martyrdom tapes, statements on al Jazeera and so forth. Then for some reason you raised the subject of waterboarding, which is totally irrelevant to these classes of evidence.

It is nice that you did not consider confessions obtained by waterboarding and rather would like to confine yourself to shoddy watery tapes broadcasted from AJ. Does that mean that you would consider a likely verdict by the US justice system null and void since they are the only party that applied waterboarding, as we all seem to agree upon?

BTW: I do not doubt that KSM considering his past was a suitable candidate to apply waterboarding to. I am sure he committed several anti-American acts in the past. The question is: is he also the mastermind behind 9/11? I think I have made myself clear that I do not think that is the case. I rather stick with Dov Z.

 

[240-185]

As somebody rightfully said, I am a 'creative writer'.

Creativity is useless here, but I can compete with you with the dullest theory: as my avatar shows, it was a ZIONIST GLOBALIST RESCUE RANGERS CHIP&DALE job !!!11!!11!!! I don't have to prove it, I'll just say that it is possible, period.

For the umptieth time... my private little contribution to the alternative ICT storyline is that the essential sound samples necessary to fake the phone calls were obtained via Israeli telecoms like Amdocs.

Prove it.

And please do not start again about 'proof'.

In order to validate your... "creativity", you must find evidences and proofs that support it. Otherwise, don't write fantasies.

And so are you folks. The idea is that our two story lines are in competition with each other.

Yes, but this competition is against a 2CV Citroën (your theory) and an Enzo Ferrari (Real version of 9/11).

 

[GStan]

For the umptieth time... my private little contribution to the alternative ICT storyline is that the essential sound samples necessary to fake the phone calls were obtained via Israeli telecoms like Amdocs.

What about the people who only decided to fly on that particular flight within a day of 9/11? What about those who changed to the hijacked flights within hours of takeoff? Some of those people also made phone calls. How did they get a recording of their voice, without their knowledge, speaking the words that would be necessary to make the fake phone call? Please do not ignore this again. This is a particularly gaping hole in your theory that consists mostly of gaping holes. NO ONE COULD POSSIBLY HAVE PRE-RECORDED CONVERSATIONS OF THE PASSENGERS WHO DIDN'T DECIDE TO FLY UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE. Acknowledge that this part of your theory IS NOT POSSIBLE, and stop repeating it as if it has not already been shared with you a dozen times in this very thread.

And please do not start again about 'proof'. I am not going to ask for 'proof' either for the silly idea of you people that the Israelis were dancing along the Hudson river bank with the burning twin towers in the background and camera's installed and pointing towards them just because FC Tel Aviv had beaten Jerusalem United the other day 2 - 1, or similar explanations for their behaviour.

As somebody rightfully said, I am a 'creative writer'. And so are you folks. The idea is that our two story lines are in competition with each other. And remember, paroting a story line because it was on Fox teevee does not make it 'proven'.

If this were a creative writing competition, you would be winning. But for non-fiction, which we are after, you have failed to produce a single sentence of it.

 

[gumboot]

And please do not start again about 'proof'. I am not going to ask for 'proof' either for the silly idea of you people that the Israelis were dancing along the Hudson river bank with the burning twin towers in the background and camera's installed and pointing towards them just because FC Tel Aviv had beaten Jerusalem United the other day 2 - 1, or similar explanations for their behaviour.

So not content with making up your own stories, you're going to start inventing our stories too? No thank you. No one has argued the above.

Dancing Israelis are your story, not ours. If anyone needs to "prove" anything about them it's you, not us.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Elsa Strong says, "She said, 'Hi, Else, this is Lin. I just wanted to tell you how much I love you.' And she said, 'Please tell Mom and Dad how much I love them.' And then she got real calm and said, 'Now my will is in my safe and my safe is in my closet. and this is the combination.' And she just told me the combination of her safe. and then she just said, 'I don't know if I'm ever going to get a chance to tell you again in person how much I love you, but I'm really going to miss you.' And she said goodbye."

This of course is a very convincing argument. How could the hypothesized secret service agent know the secret code of a safe? I was about to concede that 'my' theory had been invalidated.

But, not so fast...

I suppose that you did not come up with this argument yourself but got it from here:

http://www.911myths.com/html/calls_faked.html
(scroll to bottom).

What can we find about Linda Gronlund?

That she was a remarkable achiever. And that this lady probably was not at home a lot. Too many occupations outside the house and no kids either.

Now, let's put ouselves in the position of a Mossad agent who has to come up with a master plan concerning the operational details of 9/11; that is: not the big picture (Zakheim did that) but the details, like: how to operate the 'war room' during the critical hours of 9/11 (as displayed in the movie 'United 93' by Paul Greengrass, the dvd of which I just saw for the second time). As we all know the underlying principle of the Mossad is ''By Way Of Deception, Thou Shalt Do War". Now, how can a Mossad agent significantly increase the quality of the deception that 9/11 was? Let's assume miss Gronlund booked her holiday trip 6 weeks in advance (not unusual), so her personal data (name, address, telephone number) popped up early in the list of the Mossad. They did a bit of research and decided that she was to be the one to plant some high quality 'evidence' with. Since she had no kids and was from home a lot and probably had a lot of money (several hundred thousand of dollars at least), she is the kind of person that would care to write a will, since the 'default will' (money goes to husband/kids) did not apply. So the Mossad went to Walmart, bought a safe, wrote a simple will (computer printout), faked a signature, and shortly before 9/11 broke into the apartment of miss Gronlund and put the safe in the cupboard under some blankets and left. On 9/11 the only thing the Mossad had to do in this 71 seconds monologue with the answering machine of her sister was to say how much she loved her and tell her that she had a safe hidden in the cupboard with this and that safety code. Now you have to admit that only hopeless derailed lunatic conspiracy nuts would ever suspect such a thing!

In case you do not believe this scenario, a real 911 researcher should try to find out:

1. Test that miss Gronlund booked her trip a sufficient time in advance
2. Test that the will of miss Gronlund was not deposited with a real notary long in advance

Both points could invalidate the theory and debunk the ICT.

If people think that I exaggerate, I would like to point to the example of the Second World War where the Allies even went so far as to build thousands and thousands of fake tanks to deceive the Germans in thinking that the Allies would cross the Channel at Calais. When there is a lot at stake, societies take these kind of measures to realize their objectives.

"She really liked that she was making a real difference," said Elsa Strong, her younger sister.

The other possibility namely, that the sister had erased the (non-existing) message on her answering machine and had faked the will herself in order to acquire a couple of 100K$ from somebody who always made her feel inferior is so malicious that I would not even dare to suggest it.

Therefore, I rather stick with the judgment of the reliable Army School of Advanced Military Studies who issued a report on September 10, 2001, written by elite US army officers, which was made public just prior to 9/11. The report gave the following description for the Mossad: "Wildcard. Ruthless and cunning. Has capability to target US forces and make it look like a Palestinian/Arab act." [Washington Times, 9/10/01]

Now, who would have thought that! The American military as a bunch of conspiracy nuts with tin foil hats!

 

[Dr Adequate]

I am sorry for my poor English. I should have known that it is waterboarding, rather than water boarding, even if the spelling checker of this forum says so. If my limited command of English is of any nuisance to you we can continue in either Dutch, German of French. Wat je maar wilt. Wie du möchtest, si ty veut.

My objection was not that you misspelt waterboarding, but that you claimed I wasn't discussing it.

It is nice that you did not consider confessions obtained by waterboarding and rather would like to confine yourself to shoddy watery tapes broadcasted from AJ.

Your fantasies about what I would "like" are inconsistent with reality.

I have lots of evidence, and what you mean by "shoddy and watery", or which broadcast you believe your discussing, I have no idea.

Does that mean that you would consider a likely verdict by the US justice system null and void since they are the only party that applied waterboarding, as we all seem to agree upon?

I'm not sure what you think you're talking about, but obviously information obtained by waterboarding is inadmissable as evidence in the US justice system.

BTW: I do not doubt that KSM considering his past was a suitable candidate to apply waterboarding to. I am sure he committed several anti-American acts in the past. The question is: is he also the mastermind behind 9/11?

Well, he says so. And this fits so perfectly with all the other evidence that I have no reason to doubt him.

 

[Trojan]

This of course is a very convincing argument. How could the hypothesized secret service agent know the secret code of a safe? I was about to concede that 'my' theory had been invalidated.

But, not so fast...

I suppose that you did not come up with this argument yourself but got it from here:

http://www.911myths.com/html/calls_faked.html
(scroll to bottom).

What can we find about Linda Gronlund?

That she was a remarkable achiever. And that this lady probably was not at home a lot. Too many occupations outside the house and no kids either.

Now, let's put ouselves in the position of a Mossad agent who has to come up with a master plan concerning the operational details of 9/11; that is: not the big picture (Zakheim did that) but the details, like: how to operate the 'war room' during the critical hours of 9/11 (as displayed in the movie 'United 93' by Paul Greengrass, the dvd of which I just saw for the second time). As we all know the underlying principle of the Mossad is ''By Way Of Deception, Thou Shalt Do War". Now, how can a Mossad agent significantly increase the quality of the deception that 9/11 was? Let's assume miss Gronlund booked her holiday trip 6 weeks in advance (not unusual), so her personal data (name, address, telephone number) popped up early in the list of the Mossad. They did a bit of research and decided that she was to be the one to plant some high quality 'evidence' with. Since she had no kids and was from home a lot and probably had a lot of money (several hundred thousand of dollars at least), she is the kind of person that would care to write a will, since the 'default will' (money goes to husband/kids) did not apply. So the Mossad went to Walmart, bought a safe, wrote a simple will (computer printout), faked a signature, and shortly before 9/11 broke into the apartment of miss Gronlund and put the safe in the cupboard under some blankets and left. On 9/11 the only thing the Mossad had to do in this 71 seconds monologue with the answering machine of her sister was to say how much she loved her and tell her that she had a safe hidden in the cupboard with this and that safety code. Now you have to admit that only hopeless derailed lunatic conspiracy nuts would ever suspect such a thing!

Are these the same Mossad agents that were dancing on the roof of a van filiming their handy work?

Edited by Gaspode: 

Edited for moderated thread

 

[ktesibios]

This of course is a very convincing argument. How could the hypothesized secret service agent know the secret code of a safe? I was about to concede that 'my' theory had been invalidated.

But, not so fast...

I suppose that you did not come up with this argument yourself but got it from here:

http://www.911myths.com/html/calls_faked.html
(scroll to bottom).

What can we find about Linda Gronlund?

That she was a remarkable achiever. And that this lady probably was not at home a lot. Too many occupations outside the house and no kids either.

Now, let's put ouselves in the position of a Mossad agent who has to come up with a master plan concerning the operational details of 9/11; that is: not the big picture (Zakheim did that) but the details, like: how to operate the 'war room' during the critical hours of 9/11 (as displayed in the movie 'United 93' by Paul Greengrass, the dvd of which I just saw for the second time). As we all know the underlying principle of the Mossad is ''By Way Of Deception, Thou Shalt Do War". Now, how can a Mossad agent significantly increase the quality of the deception that 9/11 was? Let's assume miss Gronlund booked her holiday trip 6 weeks in advance (not unusual), so her personal data (name, address, telephone number) popped up early in the list of the Mossad. They did a bit of research and decided that she was to be the one to plant some high quality 'evidence' with. Since she had no kids and was from home a lot and probably had a lot of money (several hundred thousand of dollars at least), she is the kind of person that would care to write a will, since the 'default will' (money goes to husband/kids) did not apply.

Wrong. Intestacy laws have to cover a variety of possibilities. If she had died intestate, i.e., without making a will, her entire estate would have gone to her parents, if living, and to the "issue of parents", i.e., brothers and sisters, if her parents were not living, under the laws of New York where she was a resident. You can check this for yourself by going here. Scroll down and click on "EPT" (for "Estates, Powers & Trusts" then, on the resulting page, find "Article 4" and click on 'Part 1" just beneath it ("RULES GOVERNING INTESTATE SUCCESSION ").

This is the result of five minutes investiGoogling. Haven't even done that much, eh? Some "investigator".

So the Mossad went to Walmart, bought a safe, wrote a simple will (computer printout), faked a signature,

You are of course, aware that the signing of a will must be attested by two people who have either witnessed the testator signing the will or to whom the testator has acknowledged that the signature is his/hers. (Go to the same page referred to above, find "Article 3" then click on "part 2 EXECUTION OF WILLS " and then on "3-2.1- Execution and attestation of wills; formal requirements ") If anything about the will appears wrong to the potential beneficiaries, they can challenge it in court, while verifying the authenticity of a will is one of the duties of a court probating a will.

So now your Mossad conspiracy has to expand to include at least two agents of the Joos to sign the will as witnesses and verify their signatures to the ccourt.

and shortly before 9/11 broke into the apartment of miss Gronlund and put the safe in the cupboard under some blankets and left. On 9/11 the only thing the Mossad had to do in this 71 seconds monologue with the answering machine of her sister was to say how much she loved her and tell her that she had a safe hidden in the cupboard with this and that safety code. Now you have to admit that only hopeless derailed lunatic conspiracy nuts would ever suspect such a thing!

Or a fantasist who can't distinguish between the plot of a crummy action movie and external reality. They would have done much better to leave it alone and let the Surrogates Court sort it out as a case of intestacy, since a forgery would have involved substantial risk of exposure.

In case you do not believe this scenario, a real 911 researcher should try to find out:

1. Test that miss Gronlund booked her trip a sufficient time in advance
2. Test that the will of miss Gronlund was not deposited with a real notary long in advance

Both points could invalidate the theory and debunk the ICT.

And, since you present nothing but slanderous speculation it's obvious that you haven't bothered attempting it yourself, Mr. "investigator".

If people think that I exaggerate, I would like to point to the example of the Second World War where the Allies even went so far as to build thousands and thousands of fake tanks to deceive the Germans in thinking that the Allies would cross the Channel at Calais. When there is a lot at stake, societies take these kind of measures to realize their objectives.

"She really liked that she was making a real difference," said Elsa Strong, her younger sister.

The other possibility namely, that the sister had erased the (non-existing) message on her answering machine and had faked the will herself in order to acquire a couple of 100K$ from somebody who always made her feel inferior is so malicious that I would not even dare to suggest it.

But you managed to sneak this slanderous innuendo in anyway, didn't you?

Therefore, I rather stick with the judgment of the reliable Army School of Advanced Military Studies who issued a report on September 10, 2001, written by elite US army officers, which was made public just prior to 9/11. The report gave the following description for the Mossad: "Wildcard. Ruthless and cunning. Has capability to target US forces and make it look like a Palestinian/Arab act." [Washington Times, 9/10/01]

Now, who would have thought that! The American military as a bunch of conspiracy nuts with tin foil hats!

I have the capability to insert backwards Satanic messages into the rock, pop and hip-hop records you hear on the radio and make it look like the artist's doing. Is that evidence that I have done so?

I pride myself on the ability to curse like a dozen sailors in complete, grammatically correct sentences. I deeply regret having to confess that even my powers are inadequate to describe the sheer vileness you've exhibited in this thread.

 

[twinstead]

This of course is a very convincing argument. How could the hypothesized secret service agent know the secret code of a safe? I was about to concede that 'my' theory had been invalidated.

But, not so fast...

So at the last minute you just MADE ANOTHER BUNCH OF STUFF UP? Are you for real?

 

[X]

This of course is a very convincing argument. How could the hypothesized secret service agent know the secret code of a safe? I was about to concede that 'my' theory had been invalidated.

But, not so fast...

I suppose that you did not come up with this argument yourself but got it from here:

http://www.911myths.com/html/calls_faked.html
(scroll to bottom).

What can we find about Linda Gronlund?

That she was a remarkable achiever. And that this lady probably was not at home a lot. Too many occupations outside the house and no kids either.

Now, let's put ourselves in the position of a Mossad agent who has to come up with a master plan concerning the operational details of 9/11; that is: not the big picture (Zakheim did that) but the details, like: how to operate the 'war room' during the critical hours of 9/11 (as displayed in the movie 'United 93' by Paul Greengrass, the dvd of which I just saw for the second time). As we all know the underlying principle of the Mossad is ''By Way Of Deception, Thou Shalt Do War". Now, how can a Mossad agent significantly increase the quality of the deception that 9/11 was? Let's assume miss Gronlund booked her holiday trip 6 weeks in advance (not unusual), so her personal data (name, address, telephone number) popped up early in the list of the Mossad. They did a bit of research and decided that she was to be the one to plant some high quality 'evidence' with. Since she had no kids and was from home a lot and probably had a lot of money (several hundred thousand of dollars at least), she is the kind of person that would care to write a will, since the 'default will' (money goes to husband/kids) did not apply. So the Mossad went to Walmart, bought a safe, wrote a simple will (computer printout), faked a signature, and shortly before 9/11 broke into the apartment of miss Gronlund and put the safe in the cupboard under some blankets and left. On 9/11 the only thing the Mossad had to do in this 71 seconds monologue with the answering machine of her sister was to say how much she loved her and tell her that she had a safe hidden in the cupboard with this and that safety code. Now you have to admit that only hopeless derailed lunatic conspiracy nuts would ever suspect such a thing!

In case you do not believe this scenario, a real 911 researcher should try to find out:

1. Test that miss Gronlund booked her trip a sufficient time in advance
2. Test that the will of miss Gronlund was not deposited with a real notary long in advance

Both points could invalidate the theory and debunk the ICT.

If people think that I exaggerate, I would like to point to the example of the Second World War where the Allies even went so far as to build thousands and thousands of fake tanks to deceive the Germans in thinking that the Allies would cross the Channel at Calais. When there is a lot at stake, societies take these kind of measures to realize their objectives.

"She really liked that she was making a real difference," said Elsa Strong, her younger sister.

The other possibility namely, that the sister had erased the (non-existing) message on her answering machine and had faked the will herself in order to acquire a couple of 100K$ from somebody who always made her feel inferior is so malicious that I would not even dare to suggest it.

Therefore, I rather stick with the judgment of the reliable Army School of Advanced Military Studies who issued a report on September 10, 2001, written by elite US army officers, which was made public just prior to 9/11. The report gave the following description for the Mossad: "Wildcard. Ruthless and cunning. Has capability to target US forces and make it look like a Palestinian/Arab act." [Washington Times, 9/10/01]

Now, who would have thought that! The American military as a bunch of conspiracy nuts with tin foil hats!

Okay, now you get to provide evidence for these claims as well as everything else you've piled up.

You keep adding to your theory, in increasingly desperate attempts to shore up the failing walls.

How much more will you add, before you finally admit you theory requires impossibilities?


To date (and in 15 pages of thread), you have not addressed one single serious question put to you, nor have you given any evidence to substantiate your claims. You dodge the problems those questions hilite by claiming that this is a mental exercise. You readily admit you have no proof of your theories, and yet you are content to sit there and accuse or implicate hundreds of people of being party to mass murder.

The trouble is that you also claim the accepted narrative is just as unsupported as your fantasy.

Plainly, you are completely unfamiliar with the evidence in support of the accepted narrative. There is lots of it. That's why it's been accepted. Most people make a narrative of an event based on the facts. You seem to have overlooked that little detail.

Yet you claim this isn't so, and parade out ridiculously complicated and physically impossible theories, as though they are of equal merit.

They are not, and you can't just go around accusing people of horrendous crimes based on your personal agenda. YOU NEED EVIDENCE!


Provide evidence that what you claim is possible. Until you do, your "research" will remain nothing more than deluded fantasy.


To refresh your memory, here is what you need to provide evidence for (in addition to the claims in the above quote):

• The potential payoff to Israel and the Mossad was worth the risk.
• WTC was "worthless", due to asbestos.
• Atta, Al Shehhi and Jarrah were killed in Hamburg (and Germany, and America), without this ever being noticed by those who knew the men.
• Power to the WTC buildings was switched off prior to the attacks
• Thermite and radiographic controlled detonators were placed in WTC buildings without being detected.
• The explosives/thermite/detonators could survive the impact of a large airliner.
• WTC buildings can be demolished by thermite and/or explosives(make up your mind, will you?) places in the elevator shafts.
• The power off provided sufficient time for the explosives/thermite to be placed.
• The "dancing Isrealis" knew of the attacks in advance, and were the same crew that planted the explosives/thermite.
• Israeli stand-ins for Atta, Al Shehhi and Jarrah arrive at the airport(s) and leave, undetected, through a side exit.
• Boeing 757 and 767 aircraft can be remotely controlled without risk of the pilots overpowering and turning off the remote control system.
• The remote control systems used could be installed into commercial airliners without the pilots, maintenance, or ground crew noticing their presence.
• Installing the remote control system could be done without anyone noticing all the involved aircraft being taken out of service for a long time period prior to 9/11.
• Israeli agents made the phone calls, and knew personal information of the passengers, even those who booked flights at the last minute (i.e. every single phone call was faked).
• The Isrealis making the phone calls could fool those who knew the victims.
• Real-time voice morphing technology was available in 2001.
• Atta was not being able to respond in German, despite being fluent in the language.
• The whole operation could be carried out by 50 people.
• The cockpit voice recorders were faked.
• Osama Bin Laden's involvement was faked.
• WTC 7 could not have collapsed without explosives/thermite.
• The Pentagon hole is inconsistent with the impact of an airliner.
• The Justice Department is no longer looking for Osama Bin Laden.
• That Bin Laden not being on the FBI most wanted list proves Al Qaeda was not involved.
• That the number of dead in Pearl Harbor and on 9/11 is significant (and what that significance is)
• That the PNAC document shows a "new Pearl Harbor" was desired.
• There is a group of plotters and schemers planning on world domination.
• Bollyn is wise
• The number of pages in your blog is supportive of your ideas.
• Airport security was compromised.
• The United States government has lied about "almost everything".
• There are holes in the accepted narrative, and they disprove the whole thing.
• The patent you cited (aircraft remote control system) is for an actual, existing, physical system as opposed to being merely a concept.
• Dov Zakheim was involved with remotely controlling the aircraft.
• The aircraft impacted WTC1 and 2 precisely at pre-determined locations.
• Bush wanting to invade Iraq is a reason for staging the 9/11 attacks (another risk/reward scenario).
• Osama Bin Laden is dead.
• There is an electronic anti-hijack system.
• The electronic anti-hijack system was compromised.
• Aircraft had a "I am hijacked" signal they can send.
• The aircraft not sending the "I am hijacked signal" proved the pilots were locked out (as opposed to, say, dead or otherwise incapacitated).
• The controls in a 756 and 767 can be completely disabled.
• The aircraft were equipped with a "Home run" system.
• The "Home Run" system is capable of overriding the pilots and flying aircraft into buildings.
• The WTC buildings can be wired for demolition by 30 people over one weekend.
• "radiographic" explosives exits.
• The pilot of a 757 or 767 cannot overpower the "amplifier" in the control lines.
• "Decapitating" gas (fentanyl) was brought on board, hidden somewhere in the cabin, and discharged at the appropriate time.
• The incapacitating gas was triggered using barometric sensors or timers.
• Barometric sensors or timers are reliable for controlling the release of gas in aircraft.
• A mechanical decoupler can be made to separate the pilot's control yoke from the hydraulic actuators, allowing the autopilot to fly uninterrupted.
• The decoupling system would not be detected by people working on the aircraft.
• Installing the decoupling system could be done without anyone noticing all the involved aircraft being taken out of service for a long time period prior to 9/11.
• The pilots would have been able to defend themselves against armed hijackers.
• The pilots would have fought back against armed hijackers.
• The cockpit door being too narrow to permit two hijackers at once means only one hijacker can fit in the cockpit itself.
• There was no Islamic bomb attack in the West prior to 9/11.
• Suicide bombers come from the lowest level of society.
• Autopilots on 757 and 767 aircraft can be set by remote control.
• "Truth" is determined by consensus.
• The accepted narrative is accepted as true because the powers that be support it and hence, via the media, the population (as opposed to being accepted because the evidence agree with it).
• BBC's claim of hijackers being alive is indicative of a conspiracy.
• 9/11 was carried out by "rogue Israeli elements".
• America is not America's ally.
• The supposed involvement of Mossad implicate the state of Israel.
• Our resistance to your ideas is due to the potential implications, as opposed to being due to the existing evidence.
• Al Qaeda would not attack the U.S.A. out of fear of retaliation.
• USS Liberty was a false-flag operation.
• Getting a box cutter onto an airliner pre-9/11 was hard to do.
• Some hijackers are still alive.
• The martyrdom tapes were faked.
• DNA from the hijackers at the WTC complex/Pentagon is not evidence of their involvement.
• Osama Bin Laden was not involved with the 9/11 attacks.
• Finding 19 people willing to commit suicide is difficult.
• A "Global Landing System" can be used to automatically fly planes into buildings without being overridden or turned off or disconnected.
• The planes had existing remote-control units installed from the factory, and no one ever knew about them (or everyone involved with the aircraft was in on it).
• The "American Establishment" is covering up for Israel.
• Mossad was able to obtain voice and speech samples sufficient for use in a voice morphing system from everyone who made calls, even those who booked flights at the last minute.
• Operation Northwoods is relevant.
• Demolition preparation on the WTC buildings could be done from atop the elevator at a reasonable pace without being noticed.
• The aircraft were swapped.
• Trails were "laid" (read: faked) at various locations to point the finger at the "patsies" (Atta, Al Shehhi and Jarrah).
• $500,000 was enough to buy the required amount of thermite/detonators/explosives (please, for the love of FSM, make up your mind!).
• Verint Systems was used to spy on the 9/11 passengers.
• Verint was protected by the Israeli mafia.
• The "dancing Israelis" present an insurmountable problem to the accepted narrative.
• You can support statement from one source by citing secondary sources that used the source you are attempting to support.
• FBI dogs reactd to traces of explosives in the van of the "dancing Israelis".
• Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's confession of involvement in the 9/11 attacks was extracted through the use of torture.
• Mossad was able to obtain exact statements of what was to be said on the phone from the victims to use in the voice morphing technology.
• The real terrorists had access to the flight manifests for 9/11.
• The state of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in a picture taken after his capture or while he was fleeing is indicative of his ability to plan an attack (read my signature).
• The accepted narrative is unsupported by evidence.

Long list.



You made the claims. You get to supply the evidence. Get to work. If you cannot provide evidence for any facts, intellectual honesty demands that they (and all their implications and corollaries) must be dropped from your narrative. You may replace them with whatever you like, but be aware it will be under the same requirements of proof and evidence.

If you refuse to do this, please stop playing pretend. You are insulting the victims of that day and accusing innocent people of heinous crimes.

 

[gumboot]

This of course is a very convincing argument. How could the hypothesized secret service agent know the secret code of a safe? I was about to concede that 'my' theory had been invalidated.

But, not so fast...

I suppose that you did not come up with this argument yourself but got it from here:

http://www.911myths.com/html/calls_faked.html
(scroll to bottom).

What can we find about Linda Gronlund?

That she was a remarkable achiever. And that this lady probably was not at home a lot. Too many occupations outside the house and no kids either.

Now, let's put ouselves in the position of a Mossad agent who has to come up with a master plan concerning the operational details of 9/11; that is: not the big picture (Zakheim did that) but the details, like: how to operate the 'war room' during the critical hours of 9/11 (as displayed in the movie 'United 93' by Paul Greengrass, the dvd of which I just saw for the second time). As we all know the underlying principle of the Mossad is ''By Way Of Deception, Thou Shalt Do War". Now, how can a Mossad agent significantly increase the quality of the deception that 9/11 was? Let's assume miss Gronlund booked her holiday trip 6 weeks in advance (not unusual), so her personal data (name, address, telephone number) popped up early in the list of the Mossad. They did a bit of research and decided that she was to be the one to plant some high quality 'evidence' with. Since she had no kids and was from home a lot and probably had a lot of money (several hundred thousand of dollars at least), she is the kind of person that would care to write a will, since the 'default will' (money goes to husband/kids) did not apply. So the Mossad went to Walmart, bought a safe, wrote a simple will (computer printout), faked a signature, and shortly before 9/11 broke into the apartment of miss Gronlund and put the safe in the cupboard under some blankets and left. On 9/11 the only thing the Mossad had to do in this 71 seconds monologue with the answering machine of her sister was to say how much she loved her and tell her that she had a safe hidden in the cupboard with this and that safety code. Now you have to admit that only hopeless derailed lunatic conspiracy nuts would ever suspect such a thing!

That would have worked fantastically until such point as her sister went to her house and went "hrm, I was here last week and there was no safe, this is a bit odd" then went to the lawyer who went "um, that's not my signature, and I didn't sign that will, your sister's will is right here is this folder".

Stop living inside a bubble and start thinking about the implications of your theories. You will soon realise how ridiculous they are.

 

[apathoid]

http://www.bollyn.info/home/articles/911/theisraelinetworkbehind911/

I must apologize for missing a piece by Bollyn on exactly this issue of swapping airplanes:

http://www.bollyn.com/index/?id=10708

It is a story about redesigned airplanes by an Israeli company Atasco. And FTS's mounted on them. This might be a solution for the remote control problem discussed in this thread. I have yet to look into it more carefully.

P.S. FTS = flight termination system, a remote control product from Zakheim's SPC company.

The plot thickens.

Hi 9/11 Investigator, welcome here.

FTS sounds like a great system to track and remotely detonate a missile or even a drone(a plane already under remote control through other means) at a test range, but I think I'm missing the capability it has to remotely control commercial airliners.....or maybe I'm not, because it nor any other system can do it. Not FTS, not Home Run, not JPALS, nothing......

Didn't look at your story on the Israeli airplanes fitted with FTS as it's an unaccepatble source(Bollyn). Give me a mainstream news release or another article(preferably a technical publication ie Avionics Magazine) and I'll be happy to have a look at it. I've tried such a search and I cannot find anything. Go figure.

A word on plane swaps....I'm a mechanic for the worlds largest airline. As such, I routinely have to move aircraft between the maintenance facility and the terminal as well do overnight layover checks on aircraft that fly first thing in the morning. The idea that some shadow group can come swap a plane under my nose(mine and around 400 other people) is simply asinine. I really can't find a better way to put it.

Good luck solving 9/11

 

[twinstead]

I tend to agree now with X. At first, I was willing to accept the OP as simply an intellectual exorcise and leave it at that, but now 2 things are clear: 911 Investigator is talking like one who is working off of blind ideology with no evidence to support it, and he is insulting the memory of the victims of 911 with his 'narrative'.

I'm done.

 

[Mashuna]

For the umptieth time... my private little contribution to the alternative ICT storyline is that the essential sound samples necessary to fake the phone calls were obtained via Israeli telecoms like Amdocs.

What about the people who only decided to fly on that particular flight within a day of 9/11? What about those who changed to the hijacked flights within hours of takeoff? Some of those people also made phone calls. How did they get a recording of their voice, without their knowledge, speaking the words that would be necessary to make the fake phone call? Please do not ignore this again. This is a particularly gaping hole in your theory that consists mostly of gaping holes. NO ONE COULD POSSIBLY HAVE PRE-RECORDED CONVERSATIONS OF THE PASSENGERS WHO DIDN'T DECIDE TO FLY UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE. Acknowledge that this part of your theory IS NOT POSSIBLE, and stop repeating it as if it has not already been shared with you a dozen times in this very thread.

I know that this has been pointed out many times already. Still, maybe this time it will be acknowledged.

 

[Trojan]

Should we even bother to point out that a will has to be witnessed to be valid? Therefore, either the witness to the will is a conspirator or ... and God help the conspirators if she actually had a real will safely tucked away with an attorney, how would the bogus will play out ...

 

[Skeptic Guy]

9/11-Investigator is not investigating the truth, he's writing a novel...a badly plotted novel, but a novel nonetheless.

 

[ktesibios]

Should we even bother to point out that a will has to be witnessed to be valid? Therefore, either the witness to the will is a conspirator or ... and God help the conspirators if she actually had a real will safely tucked away with an attorney, how would the bogus will play out ...

Umm, I'm pretty sure I did point that out above, complete with a link to the relevant NY state law.

And you're right- for the will to be bogus either the witnesses' signatures would have to be forged, which would surely come out when the will was probated or the witnesses would also have to be evil Joo conspirators.

This will make no difference to our aspiring Eberhard Taubert. When confronted with obvious, fatal holes in his plot, he will simply handwave up another layer of elaboration for his fantasy of Bondian derring-do- "but, you see, his suit jacket transforms into a parachute! And he hacks into the planes' autopilots with his shoe phone!"

Edited by Gaspode: 

Removed incivil remark.

Edited by Gaspode: 

Removed Rule 4 breach

 

[gumboot]

Umm, I'm pretty sure I did point that out above, complete with a link to the relevant NY state law.

I pointed it out too.

 

[stateofgrace]

No they do not need to know the voice of every passenger. If they planned that 10-20 calls would be enough than they only needed 10-20 samples plus some extra for reserve. The list of 9/11 passengers was gradually building up in the airliners database as 9/11 approached. This is not highly classified information, any girl working on a booking office has access to this kind of information. And it is very well thinkable that the Israeli airport security (Huntleigh) had also access to these files. They compile a list and start eavesdropping. Most likely one hears intimate information that can be recycled on 9/11 to remove any doubt that the caller is indeed the passenger he says he is.

Problem solved.

Maybe somebody as asked this, maybe not, maybe it was ignored.

Why go to all this bother? Why make any "fake" calls?

Could you please explain why so much effort and man power was put into making faking phone calls?

Would it have not been easier, less complex, to make no calls?

 

[realitybites]

Wrong. Intestacy laws have to cover a variety of possibilities. If she had died intestate, i.e., without making a will, her entire estate would have gone to her parents, if living, and to the "issue of parents", i.e., brothers and sisters, if her parents were not living, under the laws of New York where she was a resident. You can check this for yourself by going here. Scroll down and click on "EPT" (for "Estates, Powers & Trusts" then, on the resulting page, find "Article 4" and click on 'Part 1" just beneath it ("RULES GOVERNING INTESTATE SUCCESSION ").

This is the result of five minutes investiGoogling. Haven't even done that much, eh? Some "investigator".

You are of course, aware that the signing of a will must be attested by two people who have either witnessed the testator signing the will or to whom the testator has acknowledged that the signature is his/hers. (Go to the same page referred to above, find "Article 3" then click on "part 2 EXECUTION OF WILLS " and then on "3-2.1- Execution and attestation of wills; formal requirements ") If anything about the will appears wrong to the potential beneficiaries, they can challenge it in court, while verifying the authenticity of a will is one of the duties of a court probating a will.

So now your Mossad conspiracy has to expand to include at least two agents of the Joos to sign the will as witnesses and verify their signatures to the ccourt.


Or a fantasist who can't distinguish between the plot of a crummy action movie and external reality. They would have done much better to leave it alone and let the Surrogates Court sort it out as a case of intestacy, since a forgery would have involved substantial risk of exposure.


And, since you present nothing but slanderous speculation it's obvious that you haven't bothered attempting it yourself, Mr. "investigator".


But you managed to sneak this slanderous innuendo in anyway, didn't you?


I have the capability to insert backwards Satanic messages into the rock, pop and hip-hop records you hear on the radio and make it look like the artist's doing. Is that evidence that I have done so?

I pride myself on the ability to curse like a dozen sailors in complete, grammatically correct sentences. I deeply regret having to confess that even my powers are inadequate to describe the sheer vileness you've exhibited in this thread.

Nevermind that all this illegal forgery and Walmart safe shopping seems like a lot of trouble to go through just to have a plausible back story for one faked phone call.

If I'm the Mossad and I'm sifting through through the passenger list, I'm either picking a different person, or better yet (since I'm the one faking the call), coming up with a much simpler screenplay.

But that's just me.