How 9/11 was done

[skepticalcriticalguy]

we all know the <jews> wanna rule the world. Not the Pakistanis or Iranians...or Saudis.

what about the Russians? they pulled 4 false flags in Moscow in 1999...why not in NYC in 2001?

Can you tell me more about these 4 "false flags" in Moscow? Is there evidence to support them being false flag ops?

 

[240-185]

No they do not need to know the voice of every passenger. If they planned that 10-20 calls would be enough than they only needed 10-20 samples plus some extra for reserve. The list of 9/11 passengers was gradually building up in the airliners database as 9/11 approached. This is not highly classified information, any girl working on a booking office has access to this kind of information. And it is very well thinkable that the Israeli airport security (Huntleigh) had also access to these files. They compile a list and start eavesdropping. Most likely one hears intimate information that can be recycled on 9/11 to remove any doubt that the caller is indeed the passenger he says he is.

Problem solved.

How can Mossad fake the voices if they hadn't hear before????? It's like reproducing Picasso's Young Ladies of Avignon *without having seen once* how this painting looked like. Totally nonsense.

You still don't have evidence that Mossad recorded these voices and planned these calls. Zero. Nada. Nothing. Empty. Vacuous.

 

[Skeptic Guy]

I have made life easier for myself by dropping the constraint of having the demolition preparation job done in a weekend. If 911research is right, then demolition can be prepared from the elevator and hence there is no need for a rush. The weekend scenario was based on the notion that the power was switched off, so no regular workers doing overtime, so the Israelis could work undisturbed.

http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/analysis/scenario404.html

The demolitions of the Twin Towers and Building 7 are accomplished through the detonation of high-explosive charges inconspicuously installed in all three buildings' elevator shafts, and, in the case of Building 7, small cutter charges placed adjacent perimeter columns near the building's base.

The deployment of the explosive charges in the three World Trade Center skyscrapers is performed by a team of just three technicians working over a period of about four weeks. The explosive charges, disguised to look like lighting fixtures, are placed on the roofs of elevator cars and installed on the inside walls of the elevator shafts by a technician riding on the elevator.

No need for a power cut, just a little fence placed in front of the elevator door saying 'out of service'.

Talking about WTC... Zakheim was CEO of SPC for four years. it was an SPC subsidiary, TRIDATA CORPORATION, that oversaw the investigation after the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center in 1993. The suggestion has been made that Zakheim, the most likely mastermind of 9/11, had access to the building plans of the Twin Towers.

So here is the chain: Zakheim-WTC construction plans-PNAC-remote control-comptroller of Pentagon Department that got hit on 9/11.

Ok, now you have changed your claim from "they turned off all the power in the building" in order to install the CD to they put up an "out of service" sign on the elevators (again, without a shread of support).

You sit there in the middle of Amsterdam with your 55 unprotected wi-fi connections and do "research". Sir, that is NOT research, that is creative writing. You are writing fiction. There is no difference. Unfortunately, it is not even good enough for publication.

 

[dtugg]

Are you trying to tell me that KSM confessed first and that they gave him the waterboarding treatment afterwards? That defies logic. And do you have any evidence to back such a notion up.

And why should I 'wrap up' the voice morphing issue? It is an essential element of the theory. Show me where I 'appear' to be 'totally wrong' on the issue.

He almost certainly confessed his role in 9/11 to interrogators before they waterboarded him. He is proud of what he did, he wants the world to know, and he wants to die a martyr. The waterboarding was to get him to give up information about the current operations of Al Qaeda. Even if he didn't confess until after the waterboarding, it really doesn't matter. He confessed before he was even captured. And he confessed in front of the tribunal with his lawyer present under no duress. He doesn't even claim that his confession was due to torture.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[dtugg]

Yes, he seems to admit it:

I looked Khalid in the eye and asked: "Did you do it?" The reference to September 11 was implicit. Khalid responded with little fanfare: "I am the head of the al-Qaida military committee," he began, "and Ramzi is the coordinator of the Holy Tuesday operation. And yes, we did it."

As a little detail we need to add that he made his confession while being a free man. That made this nobody a local hero. Look at the way he put it: 'I am the boss and yes I did it'. With a little fanfare.

Look the picture of this loser...

Nothing in this image and in his presence that matches the magnitude of the operation he was supposed to have organised.

When I was a kid and played soccer in the park with friends we always competed with each other in carrying the names of famous football heroes. We wanted to be important. KSM's first confession could be seen in the same light.

Once he got in captivity though, he needed 4 years and a little waterboarding to make him repeat the same confession.

You really don't know what you are talking about. KSM was a known and wanted terrorist way before 9/11. He was indicted in the US in 1996.

And that picture is supposed to prove he couldn't have planned 9/11? Please. He was on the run, of course he looked a little disheveled. Have you ever seen a picture of Saddam after he was captured? He looked worse and he ran an entire country with an iron fist for decades.

And no, it didn't take him four years in captivity to confess again. Much of his testimony is used in the 9/11 Commission Report (which you have undoubtedly never read), which was released in 2004.

 

[MIKILLINI]

So far there is much effort involved with 9/11 investigator's "story"; His assumed perpetrators have gone great lengths to do the job and give the "illusion" it was Al-Qaeda.

The list of things to do in order for this plan to succeed:
1.) Research potential passengers in order to replicate their voices.

2.) Retrofit 4 airliners with remote control...or in order to not involve people of American or United airlines, swap planes already installed with remote takeover capability...planes already made-over to appear as United or American Airlines commercial jets.

3.) Install demolition devices in WTC Towers 1, 2, 7, and also within the Pentagon (Need to make that punch out hole in the inner ring) without anyone noticing.

4.) A shadow organization entrusted to performing this in total anonymity.

5.) No second chance for this operation, it had only one time, one chance to work.

6.) Assurance that a subsequent investigation will be compromised and any proof of an inside job will not be found.

It's quite a stretch to plan out something of this magnitude without a failure occuring somewhere along the line. Even the best planned out strategy doesn't go according to how it's laid out. This event would be the exception and what makes it more exceptional
is that it did not fail anywhere, according to truthers.

But the failure here is remaining in the belief of such a scheme while the evidence doesn't back it up.

 

[skepticalcriticalguy]

what about the Russians? they pulled 4 false flags in Moscow in 1999...why not in NYC in 2001?

Can you tell me more about these 4 'false flags' in Moscow? Are they proven?

 

[Dr Adequate]

If one is able to do a splendid near real-time voice morphing job in 1999, than it is easy to infer that 2.5 years later this was possible real time given the enormous progress made in computing power in these years.

But here is the proof anyway:

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.32.4102

It can't do what you hope it does.

In this paper we present a real-time system for morphing two voices in the context of a karaoke application. As the user sings a pre-established song, his pitch, timbre, vibrato and articulation can be modified to resemble those of a pre-recorded and pre-analyzed recording of the same melody sang by another person.​

So in this case, not only would they need samples of their victims which they couldn't get in advance, they'd need samples of them making phone calls saying they'd been hijacked.

So, you still have no evidence that the gizmo you need has been built, no evidence that the samples were taken, no explanation as to how the samples were taken, and no evidence that this hypothetical device was used.

 

[bynmdsue]

Look the picture of this loser...

Nothing in this image and in his presence that matches the magnitude of the operation he was supposed to have organised.

It's not supposed to be a glamour photo.All in all,he looks pretty good for someone awakened and captured in the middle of the night by Rangers.

 

[Dr Adequate]

I see that the topic of water boarding is quietly dropped ...

You are wrong. In fact, I specifically asked you whether waterboarding, that's WATERBOARDING was how al Qaeda extracted the martyrdom tapes from the hijackers, or how al Jazeera extracts videos from al Qaeda.

You did not favor me with an answer.

http://www.daanspeak.com/AlQaeda01Eng.html
About fake bin Laden videos and Al Qaeda.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...articleId=2623
FBI says, “No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11”

I've debunked the dishonest nonsense in the first link in this thread; the second one doesn't work, but from your heading it appears to be the usual rubbish copiously debunked on these forums.

BTW: Asking for a condemnation of water boarding practices is probably too much to ask from my opponents?

As usual, you are wrong. Not only do I condemn the practice, I have not referred to any confessions so extracted as evidence, talking instead about al Qaeda videos, martyrdom tapes, statements on al Jazeera and so forth. Then for some reason you raised the subject of waterboarding, which is totally irrelevant to these classes of evidence.

 

[Dr Adequate]

Are you trying to tell me that KSM confessed first and that they gave him the waterboarding treatment afterwards? That defies logic.

No, it defies your silly fantasy that the waterboarding was used to extract his confession to complicity in 9/11.

And do you have any evidence to back such a notion up.

Well, it's certain that he bragged about his crime on al Jazeera, and you seem to agree that he was subsequently waterboarded. What's left to prove?

 

[Dave Rogers]

As the user sings a pre-established song, his pitch, timbre, vibrato and articulation can be modified to resemble those of a pre-recorded and pre-analyzed recording of the same melody sang by another person.

Maybe it's my english but as I understand it: you sing and your voice is real time transformed in the voice of say Madonna.

Actually, it looks like completely the opposite to me. It seems here that the voice of the original singer is preserved, but the notes are adjusted to be on pitch and correctly modulated. In other words, it doesn't take Fred Bloggs's voice and make it sound like Madonna is singing as badly out of tune as Fred Bloggs, it takes Fred Bloggs's voice and makes it sound like Fred Bloggs can sing as well as Madonna. Just think about it for a moment; if it used a pre-analysed recording of Madonna singing the same song to make Fred Bloggs sound like Madonna singing the song, how would it be different to just playing the recording? That's the problem with conspiracy theorists; you simply don't consider implications. This system would be useless for what you're suggesting for 9/11 voice-morphing, because it doesn't voice-morph.

I am sure that KSM made a lot of statements in his life that were not obtained by waterboarding, but that is not the point.

Yes it is the point. You're claiming KSM's confession can be discarded if it was obtained under torture. Fine, let's discard it. He still already confessed without being under torture. Another inconvenient piece of evidence you have to dispose of.

Are you trying to tell me that KSM confessed first and that they gave him the waterboarding treatment afterwards? That defies logic.

Not at all. Let's suppose he's confessed to what's already happened, without waterboarding, and made it clear he's a senior member of al-Qaeda. Do the interrogators say, "Great, we've got a confession, case closed", pack up and go home? Or do they say, "OK, since you're so high up in al-Qaeda, tell us what you've got planned next," and start applying the pressure when KSM decides he doesn't want to tell them?

There you go. A perfectly sensible and logical scenario for waterboarding after, and only after, the confession.

Dave

 

[Dave Rogers]

As a little detail we need to add that he made his confession while being a free man. That made this nobody a local hero.

It also made it more than certain that the most powerful nation on Earth would very much like to see his head removed from his shoulders. Don't forget that trifling little detail.

Dave

 

[Trojan]

Yes, he seems to admit it:

I looked Khalid in the eye and asked: "Did you do it?" The reference to September 11 was implicit. Khalid responded with little fanfare: "I am the head of the al-Qaida military committee," he began, "and Ramzi is the coordinator of the Holy Tuesday operation. And yes, we did it."

As a little detail we need to add that he made his confession while being a free man. That made this nobody a local hero. Look at the way he put it: 'I am the boss and yes I did it'. With a little fanfare.

Look the picture of this loser...

Nothing in this image and in his presence that matches the magnitude of the operation he was supposed to have organised.

When I was a kid and played soccer in the park with friends we always competed with each other in carrying the names of famous football heroes. We wanted to be important. KSM's first confession could be seen in the same light.

Once he got in captivity though, he needed 4 years and a little waterboarding to make him repeat the same confession.

Did the argument now become the confession is somenow less than credible because he made it of his own free will?

Is it me or did logic just get turned on its head?

 

[twinstead]

It also made it more than certain that the most powerful nation on Earth would very much like to see his head removed from his shoulders.

Yup, Martyrdom takes many forms. In this case it was, "yea, I did it. Whatcha gunna do about it?".

 

[twinstead]

Did the argument now become the confession is somenow less than credible because he made it of his own free will?

No, he believes it's less credible simply because it contradicts his theory.

 

[Bosozoku]

Look the picture of this loser...

Nothing in this image and in his presence that matches the magnitude of the operation he was supposed to have organised.

Since this picture was taken after he was captured, it's entirely possible that he "looked the part" while he was organizing the operation.

That said, the notion that in order for one to have masterminded an operation, one must look like, say, Dick Dastardly, is a pretty flimsy claim. It almost sounds like you really don't want to acknowledge that this whole thing wasn't organized by a bunch of guys in tuxedos sipping martinis on a tropical island.

 

[Dave Rogers]

And it is very well thinkable that the Israeli airport security (Huntleigh) had also access to these files.

Just in case anybody had forgotten, the only contract of any relevance held by Huntleigh on 9/11 was baggage handling for United Airlines. This suggests that they may or may not have had access to passenger lists for UA flights, but there's no reason to suppose they had them for AA flights. And this still doesn't address the issue of last-minute changes; they'd be unable to collect voice samples without access to time travel.

Dave

 

[defaultdotxbe]

Did the argument now become the confession is somenow less than credible because he made it of his own free will?

Is it me or did logic just get turned on its head?

also notice how he slipped an "a" in there, so "with little fanfare" becomes "with a little fanfare" to almost completely reverse the meaning

Since this picture was taken after he was captured, it's entirely possible that he "looked the part" while he was organizing the operation.

That said, the notion that in order for one to have masterminded an operation, one must look like, say, Dick Dastardly, is a pretty flimsy claim. It almost sounds like you really don't want to acknowledge that this whole thing wasn't organized by a bunch of guys in tuxedos sipping martinis on a tropical island.

yep, he looks much different in the infobox of the very wikipedia article 9/11 investigator got his info from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Shaikh_Mohammed

 

[9/11-investigator]

How can Mossad fake the voices if they hadn't hear before????? It's like reproducing Picasso's Young Ladies of Avignon *without having seen once* how this painting looked like. Totally nonsense.

You still don't have evidence that Mossad recorded these voices and planned these calls. Zero. Nada. Nothing. Empty. Vacuous.

For the umptieth time... my private little contribution to the alternative ICT storyline is that the essential sound samples necessary to fake the phone calls were obtained via Israeli telecoms like Amdocs.

And please do not start again about 'proof'. I am not going to ask for 'proof' either for the silly idea of you people that the Israelis were dancing along the Hudson river bank with the burning twin towers in the background and camera's installed and pointing towards them just because FC Tel Aviv had beaten Jerusalem United the other day 2 - 1, or similar explanations for their behaviour.

As somebody rightfully said, I am a 'creative writer'. And so are you folks. The idea is that our two story lines are in competition with each other. And remember, paroting a story line because it was on Fox teevee does not make it 'proven'.