Housing for deadbeats

[CBL4]

Why do deadbeats get better housing than the average American?

I own several rental properties and we recently had a potential tenant who told us she was eligible for $1053 in Section 8 rent assistance. Because this woman is a single mother of a two and three year old, she "needs" three bedrooms.

To put this in perspective $1053 a month is enough to pay a $160,000 mortgage including taxes and insurance. To make it even worse, I live in an area with extremely low rent and housing prices. Two years ago I bought a 4 bedroom waterfront house for only $170,000.

Because this woman is a loser who cannot support her own children, she is entitled to enough money to pay for a wonderful house, a free college education, free health insurance and enough money to pay all her other bills. My guess is that she will milk this for all she can and end up with a Phd and a few masters degree as well.

FYI:

Section 8 is a rental assistance program funded by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD). It is designed to assist low-income families rent apartments, condominiums or homes in the private market.

http://www.hakc.org/section8.html

CBL

 

[Bruce]

When I was growing up, I lived in a small town, a large portion of which lived on wellfare. When I was 16, I worked at my grandpa's machine shop. One summer, he had me paint the outside of his building. It took me a month to finish it. Every day, when I would go outside and start working, a group of men would get together and sit on their front lawn and drink lemonade and laugh ALL DAY LONG, EVERY DAY, FOR THE WHOLE DAMN SUMMER! They were all able bodied men, ages 20-40, and all were on wellfare. I would overhear them laughing about how easy it was to fool the government and how much better they had it than their working friends. It made me sick. Changed the way I look at the poor and homeless forever.

I know they aren't all that way. But it infuriates me when I see people taking advantage of the system. They are the lowest form of scum.

 

[shecky]

What do three bedroom rents go for where you live? And how did the potential tenant determine the allowance of $1053? It's unclear on the website you provided. Presumably, she'd have to come up with 30%-40% of her income to make up the difference for her rent. This would be in addition to the $1053. There are income cutoff numbers for assistance, but the allowance seems like it may be determined by the going rate. If she knows the allowance, she must have a rental price already determined. It seems renting may be significantly more expensive than buying given the housing prices you state. If this is true, the bigger question is why won't the govt assist her in buying a property, as it would be cheaper.

 

[CBL4]

Originally posted by Shecky
What do three bedroom rents go for where you live?

That depends. We have three 3 bedroom houses and they range between $750 and $1100. All of these are old houses (circa 1920) with only 1 or 1 1/2 bathrooms but the the more expensive ones are either large (>2000 sq ft) or quite nice inside. I imagine 3 bedroom apartments would start around $600.

To put in perspective, the woman can live in a nicer home than I do and I am an experienced software engineer with several rental properties. To be fair, I do have a much nicer view.

CBL

 

[BPSCG]

You mean the government is paying too much for something?

Who ever heard of such a thing...?

 

[TragicMonkey]

I'm sure someone's got a thread on this somewhere, but read the book "Random Family". A journalist followed around a family of welfare recipients and documented their lives. A disturbing read: some of them inspire pity, others inspire scorn, and seldom were the two unmixed.

$1000 would get you a very nice two bedroom apartment in my area, or a moderate-quality three bedroom.

I thought Section 8 was sort of a ripoff for the landlords, though--don't they get the money direct from the government? Certainly the Section 8 housing I've seen wouldn't be worth $1000 for a three bedroom on the open market. But then, do they figure the dollar "allowance" based on local rent rates?

And what's the deal with apartments that have "income restrictions"? I see the little chart in the Apartment Guide for those places, and the chart seems very unrealistic. $600 a month is a fair price for an apartment in this area--but someone making $19K a year would not be able to afford that much anyway.

 

[BPSCG]

About 15 years or so ago, DC Mayor Marion Barry was visiting a welfare hotel, where the city temporarily housed people until public housing opened up for them. At one point, a lady with eleven kids got in Barry's face and demanded to know "When are you going to find some housing for us?"

I forgive about 50% to 75% of Barry's failings as a mayor for his answer: "When are you gonna stop having kids?"

Lady went nuts, shrieking at Barry that it was none of his business how many kids she had.

Well, the whole juicy episode made the papers here big time, and eventually, Phil Donahue got Mom and Barry to come on his show.

It was a circus. Barry sitting there with his handkerchief, constantly mopping the sweat off his brow (he seemed to have a problem with that most of the time, not just this show), weaseling his earlier remarks with, "I wasn't addressing her, I was addressing the situation." Housing rights advocate sitting there with them, supporting Mom's right to have all the babies she wants. Outraged audience members telling Mom, "Yes, you can have all the babies you want, but don't ask me to support them" and Mom replying, in total innocence, "I'm not asking you to support anyone...", apparently assuming that her monthly welfare checks like mercy, droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven. Mom's oldest daughter was pregnant, and Donahue asked her if she had any advice to offer her daughter from her experience; Mom's reply was that she doesn't tell her daughter what to do and what not to do because it's not mom's business to run daughter's life (I think daughter was about 15 or 17 years old).

Apparently, some Good Samaritan saw the show and took pity on Mom and her plight. Like CBL4, he owned some rental property, a house, and decided to fix it up and let Mom and her brood move in and live there free of charge.

You know how this ends.

Within a few months, the house had been completely trashed and the Good Samaritan was forced to make Mom and her flock move out.

I suspect that kind of story may be why Section 8 rent subsidies seem so high; they have to make allowances for destruction of property. When you neither own property nor have to pay for its use, what stake do you have in its preservation?

 

[AtheistArchon]

Within a few months, the house had been completely trashed and the Good Samaritan was forced to make Mom and her flock move out.

- Egads.

- This inspires me to start a new thread.

 

[Michael Redman]

They were all able bodied men, ages 20-40, and all were on wellfare.

Men on welfare? Really? I've never heard of such a thing. Where was this?

 

[Tmy]

Section 8 calls for you to pony up liek 30% of your income for rent. How much would you be paying if 30% of your income was used for rent??

Theres a difference tween deadbeat and poor. In Boston the rents are so outragous that your average hardworking stiff can barley afford a place.


Instead of bashing the tenent, why not turn to the RENTER. Section 8 is corporate welfare. It helps to inflate rents. The tenant doesnt even see the money, but they bear the brunt of the public scorn.

No childless man/women gets welfare (well other than unemployemnt or disability)

 

[TragicMonkey]

Section 8 calls for you to pony up liek 30% of your income for rent. How much would you be paying if 30% of your income was used for rent??

Um, slightly less than I pay now. But then, I live in an area with inflated rental costs (thanks to the military presence) and low wages (thanks to the military wife presence). But I'm hardly poor, and have no difficulties getting by. The key, I think, is not having children unless you can afford them. Always a savings.

 

[Michael Redman]

What are you supposed to do if you have the children before you lose your job, husband, health, etc. and can no longer afford them? Sell them?

 

[TragicMonkey]

What are you supposed to do if you have the children before you lose your job, husband, health, etc. and can no longer afford them? Sell them?

Of course not! What would they eat if they sold off the children?

 

[CBL4]

Section 8 calls for you to pony up like 30% of your income for rent.

For this woman that zero. Because she is a deadbeat single mother student with kids, she gets everything for free.

Section 8 has very strict rules for tenants. If they trash the place, then they are kicked off the dole. If the tenants are able to behave themseleves, they get dirt cheap rents forever.

For landlords, it can be a good situation if you get an experienced leech who knows how to behave themselves. If you get a first time deadbeat, they are likely to be destructive. I do not think the rents paid for Section 8 tenants are higher. At least, we do not charge higher rents. The landlords have more restrictions (e.g. lease type) and responsibilities. For ethical reasons, we generally avoid Section 8 people but we have to many vacancies right now to reject them.

BTW, many of the people on Section 8 are good decent people who are disabled or otherwise unable to hold a job through no fault of their own. I use the words "leech" and "deadbeat" because I know too many "disabled" people who are fully capable of working but prefer to sponge of the rest of us. For example, I know two bright, articulate men who are avid gardeners who are supposedly disabled. One has a bad back that prevents him from working but not from digging up shrubs. I am not sure of the other one's disability.

CBL

 

[CBL4]

What are you supposed to do if you have the children before you lose your job, husband, health, etc. and can no longer afford them? Sell them?

You get unemployment if you lose your job. You get alimony (or social security) if you lose a husband. If your health truly prevents you from getting work, then I have no problem with welfare.

As far as this woman, if she were getting enough money to get a livable place, I would not have brought the issue up. But she is getting enough money to get a quite nice place.

Let's compare two people after graduating from high school. One decides to work herself through college. She lives in a crappy little apartment, spends 40 hours at work and goes to college half time. It takes her 6 stressful and tiring years to get a degree. Another woman shacks up with a loser and has two kids before he leaves. Then she gets a very nice three bedroom house, her college paid for, her day care paid for, her health insurance paid for, food stamps and enough money to raise her children. It takes her 6 years to graduates from college and she has been able to live a life of her choosing without making any sacrifices. Does this seem fair?

CBL

 

[Tmy]

You get unemployment if you lose your job. You get alimony (or social security) if you lose a husband.
CBL

Its all welfare now isnt it. free Govt money.


Your not being realist when you talk alimony. Not everyopne has donald trump as an x- husband.

Two married people can barley make it. Split them up and now they both cant make it.


Lots of old people get section 8 by the way.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Well, inmy adult life, the closest I have ever been to acepting any form of government assistance has been a couple of stints where I survived off of unemployment checks. However, as a kid we were so dirt poor that there were several periods in my life where we were on welfare and I spent most of my childhood in various forms of governemnt subsidized housing (mostly on a Paiute Indian Reservation). So I have been on both sides of the fence on this issue, because I have fought and clawed my way to lower middle class but by the standards of the rest of my family, I am the wealthy relative with the big house.

From what I saw in my childhood, people receiving government assistance are pretty much like everyone else, some are people that have had a few bad breaks thrown their way, some are lazy bastiches who are out to use the system. My stepfather, for example would work 70+ hour weeks when the work was there, but he worked in construction, so often, especially during the winter we would be in a position where it was either accept food stamps or starve. On the other hand I knew several people who wouldn't even look for a job because it would screw up their welfare payments. So I think it is unfair to characterize all people who accept government charity as 'deadbeats' but neither is it correct to assume that all of them will work if given the chance.

Also, I do not get the implication that those who were on welfare are better off than the average American. If memory serves, those times when my stepdad was working 70 hours a week were much better for us than those times we were on welfare. And now that I am older, I am one of two children (out of four total, unfortunately) in my family that has gotten our lives together where we don't need the government (or anyone else) helping us to make it. And my sister and I are both WAY better off than our two siblings who depend on the government. We just can't convince the other two to do what needs to be done to become independant. But we're still trying

 

[Bruce]

Men on welfare? Really? I've never heard of such a thing. Where was this?

This was Paulding, Ohio in the late 1980's. Typical situation went like this:

1. Boy gets girl pregnant in high school.
2. Girl drops out and goes on welfare.
3. Boy drops out and gets a job inseminating turkeys.
4. Boy finds out he would make more money on welfare and fakes and injury so he can get on welfare.
5. Boy and girl find out they can get more money if they have more children.
6. Boy and girl eventually have 6-10 kids, never work, and own cable TV, sports car, swimming pool, and also play the lottery.

It's really hard for me to give to charity organizations when I've known and grown up with the people that use them and exploit them. Every Christmas, they show A Christmas Carol, and people get the idea that the poor and distitute are quiet, humble, and thankful for your help, but in truth, most of them are pushy, demanding, terribly lazy, and they blame everybody else for all the trouble they cause. Forget about "beggars can't be choosers" and "don't bite the hand that feeds you". These people would bite your hand off and complain that your hand isn't meaty enough. Hmmmph. Well, shame on me for being such a scrooge, huh?

I remember a dateline special about 10 years ago where they went up to 100 different bums that were holding "Will work for food" signs and offered to have them mow a lawn for a really nice meal. Only one actually showed up. The rest just assumed that most people would just give them cash.

 

[Tmy]

This was Paulding, Ohio in the late 1980's. Typical situation went like this:

1. Boy gets girl pregnant in high school.
2. Girl drops out and goes on welfare.
3. Boy drops out and gets a job inseminating turkeys.
4. Boy finds out he would make more money on welfare and fakes and injury so he can get on welfare.
5. Boy and girl find out they can get more money if they have more children.
6. Boy and girl eventually have 6-10 kids, never work, and own cable TV, sports car, swimming pool, and also play the lottery.

That would be disabilty. AND FRAUD!!!! No one agrees with fraud. Turn the guy in.


Few problems in your example.
You dont "make more money" on welfare. The amounts are very low. If you are on welfare you dont get extra money for extra kids. They are capped.

 

[CBL4]

Its all welfare now isnt it. free Govt money.

Unemployment is sort of a government enforce insurance scheme. If you work, you (and your employer) have to pay and then you are eligible for unemployment. I do not like the program but that is the way it is. As far as my reference to social security, that was in case the husband died. Again people who work have to pay it.

Your not being realist when you talk alimony. Not everyopne has donald trump as an x- husband.
Two married people can barley make it. Split them up and now they both cant make it.

I did not have children until I was sure I was going to stay with my wife. We saved 20% of our income for 4 years before having children. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. This woman's children are her and the father's responsibility not mine. But I am paying for more of their care than they are.

Lots of old people get section 8 by the way.

Some Section 8 people are deserving. Other are deadbeats.

CBL