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House Impeachment Inquiry

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Armitage72 said:
Fake news!! Trump himself said that support for impeachment had plummeted since the hearings started. Surely he wouldn't lie to the public.
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It should have been predictable that Trump would bring himself and his party to the point that their political survival absolutely depends on lying to the public.
 
phiwum said:
I'm not saying that he had good reason to withhold the aid nor that he withheld it for any reason other than his own political self-interest.

I'm only saying that he did not admit that he withheld the aid in order to persuade (extort, if you prefer) Ukraine to announce either of the investigations.

I'm sure you and I agree that's why he did it. My question is whether he's actually publicly admitted to it.
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We are,indeed, agreed. My point was that his excuse (Ukraine corruption) is proved false by the fact the Pentagon had already cleared that requirement. Therefore, there was clearly another motivation to withhold the money...one the GOP refuse to admit.
 
Horatius said:
Which of course highlights how Trump being a "businessman" doesn't help him run the government. Delay tactics might work against Bob's Gold Plumbing Co., because Bob is a small businessman who has limited resources for going to court. But this time he's not suing Bob, he's suing one part of the US government. They have as close to unlimited resources as exists in the real world. So let him delay it right up to the Supreme Court. After that, there's nowhere else to go.
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Its true... the government does have more resources to fight lawsuits involving Trump, so Trump can't just expect to 'outspend' his opponents.

However, the fact that he is president gives him an advantage in that many of the lawsuits are case sensitive and can take months or years to work their way though the court system.

For example, Trump's recent victory in the supreme court (which prevents the release of his financial records to congress) means that things like violations of the emoluments clause probably can't be included in any impeachment proceedings, even if the supreme court later rules that they should be turned over to congress.

And legal arguments over the release of the Mueller report won't begin until January, which means that at least some evidence of Trump's obstruction of justice and/or perjury wouldn't be available for the house to vote on.
 
Looks like they're scheduling out the next steps:

The House Judiciary Committee has scheduled its first impeachment hearing next week as the House moves another step closer to impeaching President Donald Trump.

The committee announced that it would hold a hearing December 4 on the "constitutional grounds for presidential impeachment," which will have a panel of expert witnesses who will testify
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Trump does get to have legal counsel present and able to participate:

House Democratic aides said Tuesday that the President's counsel will be able to participate in the hearing.
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It starts with:

The Democratic aides said the first hearing was a "legal hearing" that would include some history of impeachment, as well as evaluating the seriousness of the allegations and the evidence against the President.
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Armitage72 said:
Fake news!! Trump himself said that support for impeachment had plummeted since the hearings started. Surely he wouldn't lie to the public.
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Well to be fair, on 538's tracking it did drop to 46.3% for to 45.6% against, but it's back up to 48.4% for to 43.9% against.
 
PhantomWolf said:
Well to be fair, on 538's tracking it did drop to 46.3% for to 45.6% against, but it's back up to 48.4% for to 43.9% against.
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You know, sometimes there are things that my brain just can't compute, and I realise that perhaps it's just my limited experience or perspective, but I don't understand how 44% of the US population can miss the criminality, abuse of power and seriousness of what the President has done. Are we really living in two different realities where the same facts don't necessarily apply?
 
Belz... said:
You know, sometimes there are things that my brain just can't compute, and I realise that perhaps it's just my limited experience or perspective, but I don't understand how 44% of the US population can miss the criminality, abuse of power and seriousness of what the President has done. Are we really living in two different realities where the same facts don't necessarily apply?
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I don't think most of that 44% do miss the criminality, abuse of power and seriousness of what the President has done. They just don't care about it.
 
plague311 said:
URL="https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/26/politics/judiciary-committee-hearing/index.html"]Looks like they're scheduling out the next steps[/URL]:
The House Judiciary Committee has scheduled its first impeachment hearing next week as the House moves another step closer to impeaching President Donald Trump.

The committee announced that it would hold a hearing December 4 on the "constitutional grounds for presidential impeachment," which will have a panel of expert witnesses who will testify

Trump does get to have legal counsel present and able to participate:
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Please lord satan, let it be Giuliani, just for the comedic value!

On one hand, having actual intelligent people (i.e. an actual lawyer) involved (rather than 'Gym' Jordan and Devin "Sue the cow" Nunes) might mean the proceedings become more fact-based.
 
Re: people who continue to support trump, even though there is evidence of criminal behavior...
Belz... said:
Same question, then: how is that even possible? It impacts their lives, in the end, if government is not held accountable.
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Because Trump gives them something that they wouldn't get from the Democrats. For the majority of voters, that probably means racism.
 
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