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Cont: House Impeachment Inquiry - part 2

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Meadmaker said:
To follow up, Trump supporters are very happy that liberals hate Trump, and that is a big part of why they like him. However, you (Joe, et. al.) seem to think that's all they care about. The fact that liberals hate him is not an end in itself.

They hate the leftist agenda. They think the leftist agenda is bad for the country. Trump stands up to the leftist agenda, and so they love him. Unlike a lot of conservatives, he isn't even apologetic about it, and he goes after the stuff that other politicians won't touch for fear of being accused of bad things.
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And they like to finally have a leader who tells it like it is about mexicans being rapists.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
And remarks like these represent reason #56 that he got elected and would probably win re election.... pending that he doesnt do something outright stupid between now and then
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Could you please clarify what you mean by "remarks like these"?

Do you deny that Evangelicals largely support Trump because he appoints judges and supports policies that reflect their conservative religious beliefs?

Six weeks before the election, Trump met with leaders of the religious right to discuss "sealing the deal" for their support.

Over the next hour, the message was that theirs was a power Trump would heed — and heed more than any other president. He would end the contraception mandate of Obamacare (“We’re getting rid of Obamacare anyway”); he would select only anti-choice judges (“And this president could choose, I mean, it could be five”); he would do away with the Johnson Amendment, which prohibits tax-exempt entities from endorsing politicians (“Wouldn’t it be nice if you could actually go and say, ‘I want Donald Trump’?”); he would support prayer in school (“I saw the other day a coach was giving a prayer before a football game, and they want to fire the coach now!”); he would oppose any bill that pulled funding from Christian schools that were charged with discrimination (“I can only tell you that if I’m president, it will be vetoed, OK?”); he would keep transgender people from using the “wrong” bathrooms and locker rooms (“We’ll get it straightened out”); and he would protect Israel, following the biblical pronouncement that nations that do so would be blessed (“[Obama’s] been the worst thing that’s happened to Israel; I was with Bibi Netanyahu the other day, and he said he can’t even believe it”). In other words, when it came to religious liberty as the attendees defined it, he would make sure that America was on the right side of God
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https://www.rollingstone.com/politi...christian-right-worships-donald-trump-915381/

Minor update on how I see things with the impeachment... pelosi holding onto the articles is a failed power play independent of whether or not people think trump needs to be forcibly removed from office. Them demanding witnesses at this stage is even weaker... as I've pointed out in the past, they had full control over this process in their impeachment inquiry but made the argument that there was so much urgency that they couldnt wait for this issue to be resolved electorally. Now they've sat on it for over a month and they are demanding witnesses that they could have subpoenaed through the courts if they took enough time to do it...... regardless if you think trump should be removed... I think they are doing more damage to their case than the Senate is in how they're viewed in handling the impeachment trial.

Sorry the be the bearer of this news but some of the issues they're having now and are using as justification for withholding the articles are issues of their own making
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I have no idea why you put this in a post directed at me as my post had nothing to do with Pelosi withholding sending the impeachment articles to the Senate.
 
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3point14 said:
I think it's more the leftist agenda as portrayed by the right wing media. Which is a different proposition.
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It's also a case of massive misdirection. The poor and underprivileged are told to blame leftists, foreigners, anyone different, for the failings of the capitalist system. These people aren't living in poor and failing community's because of leftists but because the economy has left them behind.

Farms are now automated industries. Workers are hired by wealthy farming companies because they are illegal immigrants and hence cheap.
 
BrooklynBaby said:
That's complete nonsense.
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It makes complete sense.

If it hasn't been clear already, a good majority of Trump voters don't seem to know why they picked him. If he does something Obama did at some level already it's precedent. If he does something radically different from the previous administration it's "Finally we've got a real president we can be proud of". Anything he does otherwise regarded as inappropriate or insane is brushed off as not a big deal by the same people we can be sure of would have turned the world upside down if it was the black guy.

He restricts the dignity and rights of LGBT and blacks it's "oh shutup snowflakes, we've got a real man in the white house". He goes the opposite and claims hell stop decriminalization of homosexuality it's "see, he's so TOLERANT, what are you leftists screaming about!!".
Not to mention blacks and the black unemployment card.

Trump was elected president because he's a tough-talking, simple minded white guy.
 
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a_unique_person said:
It's also a case of massive misdirection. The poor and underprivileged are told to blame leftists, foreigners, anyone different, for the failings of the capitalist system. These people aren't living in poor and failing community's because of leftists but because the economy has left them behind.
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Agreed. This has always been the case.

Divide and conquer, the rich, with their power to distribute information, make poor people blame each other for the greed of the rich.

It's always been the way and will continue to be the way.


Snowflake, Boomer, redneck, elitist, liberal, and many other terms are extensively used by the billionaire owned media to ensure that the poor people they are shafting are too busy fighting each other to notice who's taking 20% off the top of everything


I've come to the conclusion that there's been a class war going on for the last 40 years and the rich are winning comprehensively. Of course, any talk of responding in kind is met with accusations of 'class war' and the dreadful 'wealth redistribution.'


I've arrived at the point where I'm fully up for some serious class war and wealth redistribution now. Both have been practiced for ages by the very people that will tell you that both are not allowed.
 
a_unique_person said:
These people aren't living in poor and failing community's because of leftists but because the economy has left them behind.
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Okay. And?

"They are blaming the wrong people" (which, to be 100% clear, is completely correct, I agree with 100%, understand completely, and don't need a 10 paragraph data dump of arguments to convince me of) doesn't change the basic fact that there is still no answer as to what these people are supposed to do now that isn't "Just hurry up and quietly die off."

We say "They got left behind" as if we can then wipe our hands and declare the matter over.
 
3point14 said:
Agreed. This has always been the case.

Divide and conquer, the rich, with their power to distribute information, make poor people blame each other for the greed of the rich.

It's always been the way and will continue to be the way.


Snowflake, Boomer, redneck, elitist, liberal, and many other terms are extensively used by the billionaire owned media to ensure that the poor people they are shafting are too busy fighting each other to notice who's taking 20% off the top of everything


I've come to the conclusion that there's been a class war going on for the last 40 years and the rich are winning comprehensively. Of course, any talk of responding in kind is met with accusations of 'class war' and the dreadful 'wealth redistribution.'


I've arrived at the point where I'm fully up for some serious class war and wealth redistribution now. Both have been practiced for ages by the very people that will tell you that both are not allowed.
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Indeed. The real struggle is between top and bottom, but it's obscured by the manufactured circus between left and right.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Okay. And?

"They are blaming the wrong people" (which, to be 100% clear, is completely correct, I agree with 100%, understand completely, and don't need a 10 paragraph data dump of arguments to convince me of) doesn't change the basic fact that there is still no answer as to what these people are supposed to do now that isn't "Just hurry up and quietly die off."

We say "They got left behind" as if we can then wipe our hands and declare the matter over.
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And nothing. You never have any solutions to offer so why do you demand anyone else do so? Congratulations! You've identified a problem you've deemed to be unsolvable. So move on. Once a problem is determined to be unsolvable all that can be done is to ignore it and move on. There is no value in standing there crying over spilled milk.
 
TragicMonkey said:
And nothing. You never have any solutions to offer so why do you demand anyone else do so? Congratulations! You've identified a problem you've deemed to be unsolvable. So move on. Once a problem is determined to be unsolvable all that can be done is to ignore it and move on. There is no value in standing there crying over spilled milk.
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Listen I'm getting rather annoyed at your "Oh nothing we do here matters we're just idiots talking on the internet" excuse out of one side of your mouth and and then "You can't say anything unless you have a fully realized plan to solve it" demands out of the other.

If we don't figure out something to mollify the rural areas we're gonna have Trump again in 2020. And at this rate 2024 and 2028.

Even if the answer we land on is "They are dead, good riddance" that corpse is gonna twitch and do damage for a long time.
 
LOL.

"Don't forget, we need that ****** redneck's help. I hate rednecks."

"Tell me about it. Deplorables. I hope they all die in a fire."

"Oh, he's already dead to me, believe it. My life is so much better without that ******* in it."

"Guys, I'm right here."

"Shut up. Also, can you do us a favor?"
 
JoeMorgue said:
Listen I'm getting rather annoyed at your "Oh nothing we do here matters we're just idiots talking on the internet" excuse out of one side of your mouth and and then "You can't say anything unless you have a fully realized plan to solve it" demands out of the other.

If we don't figure out something to mollify the rural areas we're gonna have Trump again in 2020. And at this rate 2024 and 2028.

Even if the answer we land on is "They are dead, good riddance" that corpse is gonna twitch and do damage for a long time.
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Whose "we"? You got a mouse in your pocket? Nobody's expecting you to solve anything. Which is good because you apparently don't believe there is a solution and get mad when that's pointed out. All you want to do is moan about the rural plight. Okay, yeah, it's sad. What can be done? Nothing. So what now? Stay forever making the same observation?
 
TragicMonkey said:
Whose "we"? You got a mouse in your pocket? Nobody's expecting you to solve anything. Which is good because you apparently don't believe there is a solution and get mad when that's pointed out. All you want to do is moan about the rural plight. Okay, yeah, it's sad. What can be done? Nothing. So what now? Stay forever making the same observation?
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The rise of Trump is part of it. Unless you want to shrug and place Donald Trump under that same "Oh it's unsolvable now stop complaining umbrella" I don't want to hear it.

So what that's where we land? "We can't save you but don't any of you dare make any noise as you die off?"
 
JoeMorgue said:
The rise of Trump is part of it. Unless you want to shrug and place Donald Trump under that same "Oh it's unsolvable now stop complaining umbrella" I don't want to hear it.

So what that's where we land? "We can't save you but don't any of you dare make any noise as you die off?"
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I wasn't talking to the rural poor. I was talking to you. You should stop making the same noise in every thread if that noise the the same complaint about the same problem that you believe to be unsolvable. It is an exercise in futility to perpetually complain about the same thing if, as you seem to believe, that thing cannot be fixed.

Perhaps you could just put "Alas, the rural poor!" and a link to the Wong article in your signature so you don't have to constantly type the same point repeatedly?
 
Oh I'm sorry did I interrupt the constant stream of new, interesting, and not at all repetitive ways "The orange man is bad" keeps getting re-iterated?

The idea that I'm some sort of specifically unique or bothersome kind of one note is laughable.

Don't like it ignore me or just go back to your old persona posting of "LOL lookit me I'm so random spaghetti taco" posts for everything.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Okay. And?

"They are blaming the wrong people" (which, to be 100% clear, is completely correct, I agree with 100%, understand completely, and don't need a 10 paragraph data dump of arguments to convince me of) doesn't change the basic fact that there is still no answer as to what these people are supposed to do now that isn't "Just hurry up and quietly die off."

We say "They got left behind" as if we can then wipe our hands and declare the matter over.
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The rural areas need an influx of cash and people. For those purposes, UBI would help considerably. Rural areas have a lower cost of living, so a lot of struggling city folks would be able to use a flat-rate UBI to move and become successful country folks.
 
Random said:
The rural areas need an influx of cash and people. For those purposes, UBI would help considerably. Rural areas have a lower cost of living, so a lot of struggling city folks would be able to use a flat-rate UBI to move and become successful country folks.
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If healthcare and transportation were improved to the point where rural areas became inviting for retirees that would help as well. They'd be attracted by the low property costs and scenery and quiet. The things holding them back are the lack of access to gobs of healthcare, something the elderly need more than most and the rural US lacks more than most.
 
"Hospital deserts" are one of the bigger issues facing the rural areas. Nobody in modern American should be 100 miles from a hospital.
 
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