Cont: House Impeachment Inquiry - part 2

[acbytesla]

It's a hypothetical violation of the constitution. I'm sure there are more realistic examples that would raise the same untested (?) quandary.

I get that. They cannot take away his 5th Amendment rights. But they could grant him blanket immunity and then he would have no choice.

 

[Minoosh]

What makes you think they are surprised and discombobulated? What makes you think Pelosi is buying time?

I don't think theprestige thinks this. He was saying that this is the narrative that Pelosi is trying to get voters to believe. Kind of indirect. That's how I read it, though obviously I don't know for sure.

I just like the fact that she wrong-footed the Trump camp. A psy-ops kind of thing. Keeping those Senate dudes off-balance. It's IMO a pretty smart gimmick. Trump will be reacting to it for quite a while. But I do still think of it as a gimmick or a stunt, not a strategy. If the public recognizes that, will it hurt the Democrats? I doubt it. I think this makes her look smart, not stupid. To find a bit of leverage and use it. If I thought that was the plan all along I might find it somewhat off-putting, though.

 

[Minoosh]

I get that. They cannot take away his 5th Amendment rights. But they could grant him blanket immunity and then he would have no choice.

I think Bolton is positively panting to testify, but the cool kids don't do it without a subpoena. He wants to be seen as a reluctant witness.

 

[acbytesla]

I don't think theprestige thinks this. He was saying that this is the narrative that Pelosi is trying to get voters to believe. Kind of indirect. That's how I read it, though obviously I don't know for sure.

I just like the fact that she wrong-footed the Trump camp. A psy-ops kind of thing. Keeping those Senate dudes off-balance. It's IMO a pretty smart gimmick. Trump will be reacting to it for quite a while. But I do still think of it as a gimmick or a stunt, not a strategy. If the public recognizes that, will it hurt the Democrats? I doubt it. I think this makes her look smart, not stupid. To find a bit of leverage and is it. If I thought that was the plan all along I might find it somewhat off-putting, though.

In the era of Trump where civility and doing what is expected was thrown out with yesterday's newspapers, no one will care. But that won't stop the GOP faux outrage.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Thanks. Very helpful. The rules ultimately put the senate in charge in seemingly every situation.

However, I'm dubious the senate is allowed to put the constitution aside. Say Hunter Biden testifies, and he takes the 5th. And then the senate places him in jail.

Uncharted water.

I don't see a reason for him to plead the 5th. Do you?

The Repugnicans only want to get Jim Jordanesque BS out there in front of the cameras.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Biden could take the 5th. But why would he? He did nothing wrong. The only complaint I keep hearing is that he was overpaid. But I'd like to point out that Roberts could rule his testimony to be irrelevant to what Trump did. (And it is)

Technically true. Were it a real trial in a regular court, the defense would have to show how Hunter's testimony is relevant given it hasn't been established Trump gave one iota of **** about Ukraine corruption.

 

[acbytesla]

Technically true. Were it a real trial in a regular court, the defense would have to show how Hunter's testimony is relevant given it hasn't been established Trump gave one iota of **** about Ukraine corruption.

He has that authority during a Senate trial as well. But he could be outvoted in a roll call vote.

 

[varwoche]

I don't see a reason for him to plead the 5th. Do you?

The Repugnicans only want to get Jim Jordanesque BS out there in front of the cameras.

It's a hypothetical violation of the constitution. I'm sure there are more realistic examples that would raise the same untested (?) quandary.

 

[TellyKNeasuss]

So, how many votes in the U.S did Russia change in the U.S. with their aggressive actions? I need a number and a source, or it's simply as nonsensical as it sounds.

How many votes did Trump's and Hillary's campaign speeches change? I need a number, or it's nonsensical to believe that their campaign speeches changed votes.

 

[Stacyhs]

So, how many votes in the U.S did Russia change in the U.S. with their aggressive actions? I need a number and a source, or it's simply as nonsensical as it sounds.

How many votes did Trump's and Hillary's campaign speeches change? I need a number, or it's nonsensical to believe that their campaign speeches changed votes.

BB may as well have asked how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
I'm amused by people who ask questions they know are unanswerable and then think they've made some kind of point.

 

[varwoche]

BB may as well have asked how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
I'm amused by people who ask questions they know are unanswerable and then think they've made some kind of point.

On top of which, it was a highly successful October surprise, dominating Clinton's news coverage down the stretch. Drip, drip, drip. And that's just wikileaks. There's also the lesser factor of the Russian social media campaign.

 

[Ziggurat]

They already have.

I haven't seen any polling results for Pelosi's delay move. Have you?

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Hands up, don't shoot!!! The Mueller Report said no one in the U.S. colluded with Russia to fix the election and that included Trump. Everything you read in fake news about pee pee tapes and Trump colluding with Russia is a lie, but nothing will ever convince the consumers of fake news about that. The "popular vote" is irrelevant in this country, by the way, and designed that way intentionally by the Founding Fathers. Biden bragged about doing exactly what fake news is lying about Trump doing by extorting Ukraine and the left SIMPLY DOESN'T CARE. There is no rational reason Hunter Biden was getting a million dollars a year for sitting on Burisma's board while Biden was Vice-President and Obama's point man for Ukraine. Oh, and climate science is nonsense as presented by all left-wing politicians and is simply an excuse to implement global socialism. Also, being able to change your gender by simply announcing it is perhaps the stupidest lie the left has ever come up with. Hope this helps.

Oh, it helps. Maybe not in the way you intended, though.

 

[acbytesla]

I haven't seen any polling results for Pelosi's delay move. Have you?

I thought you were saying something else. But I don't think they can effectively poll for this.

 

[Stacyhs]

Oh, it helps. Maybe not in the way you intended, though.

Agreed. It certainly helped me make a decision to do something I should have done quite a while ago.

 

[Stacyhs]

Newly declassified email shows Trump ordered withholding of Ukraine aid money 90 minutes after the Aug. 25 Zelensky call and the Pentagon comptroller was told to keep it hush hush:

Donald Trump’s administration ordered the Pentagon to freeze $391m (£300m) of military aid to Ukraine less than two hours after the phone call in which US president asked Ukrainian leader Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate his political rival Joe Biden, newly released internal emails have revealed.

A declassified White House memorandum documenting the president’s 25 July call with Mr Zelensky shows the call – during which Mr Trump asked his Ukrainian counterpart to probe a conspiracy theory his own aides have attributed to Russia’s intelligence services – began at 9.03 am and ended 30 minutes later.



At 11.04 am that day – 91 minutes after the call had ended – senior Office of Management and Budget (OMB) official Michael Duffey sent an email to Defence Department officials requesting the Pentagon stop making plans to distribute any security assistance funds to Ukraine, the papers show.

The email, which was one of many released in a 20 December document dump in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit by the Centre for Public Integrity, shows that Mr Duffey was aware the decision to place a hold on funds intended to help Ukraine fight off a Russian-backed invasion would be controversial, as he asked Pentagon comptroller Elaine McCusker keep the information “closely held to those who need to know to execute direction”.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...nsky-biden-omb-documents-latest-a9256666.html

Can't wait to see how the Trumpers spin this one...cuz you now they will.

 

[Ziggurat]

I thought you were saying something else. But I don't think they can effectively poll for this.

Probably not directly. We can watch what happens to support for impeachment over time, though. I don't think it's a given that this will go up, or that Pelosi's move will help it do so. Personally I see it as a sign of weakness in her position. Obviously you see it differently. Neither of us probably really knows how it will be seen by swing voters in general.

 

[acbytesla]

Probably not directly. We can watch what happens to support for impeachment over time, though. I don't think it's a given that this will go up, or that Pelosi's move will help it do so. Personally I see it as a sign of weakness in her position. Obviously you see it differently. Neither of us probably really knows how it will be seen by swing voters in general.

Zig,

Impeachment is over. No way they come to an agreement on the trial. And it doesn't matter how either of us thinks about it. It's the people in the middle. It's maybe 10 percent of the population that will decide if the strategy was effective.

I'm convinced it is because the Democrats don't have to lie. Trump used his office corruptly. He withheld almost 400 million dollars to help him smear his political opponent. A trial in the senate is irrelevant. All the Republicans can do is whine and say the Dems aren't playing fairly.

I'll take telling the truth over lying every day. But hey, I'm not a Trump supporter. I was taught that lying is wrong.

 

[bam]

I'm not psychic but if keeping the articles in the house postpones the trial long enough for more drips and drabs of declassified emails to come forward it's a good thing. Lawsuits may end, witness testimony may leak, increasing pressure may force an actual trial rather than a farce. It's a good strategy, especially given what they had to work with in the senate.

 

[acbytesla]

I'm not psychic but if keeping the articles in the house postpones the trial long enough for more drips and drabs of declassified emails to come forward it's a good thing. Lawsuits may end, witness testimony may leak, increasing pressure may force an actual trial rather than a farce. It's a good strategy, especially given what they had to work with in the senate.

This.