Cont: House Impeachment Inquiry - part 2

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The Great Zaganza said:
Only time will tell if this helps the Dems or not
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And even in the future we'll never know.

If the Democrats lose the next election, is it because of their actions over impeachment hurt them? Or was Trump going to win anyways (because of voter suppression, Russian assistance, the layout of the electoral college) and the impeachment helped but not enough.

And if the Democrats win the next election, is it because the impeachment helped highlight the corrupt nature of the republicans? Or were they going to win anyways, and the impeachment was largely a non-issue?
 
Mojo said:
I expect he can exonerate himself.
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Everyone in the USA knows he is now impeached. So he can call fake all he wants; doesn't make it so. Even less so now the US government has slapped his wrist with an arrest warrant.

Instead, it makes him a better political target for his opponents. Mainly because Trump can't explain how the system works that he did get impeached, nor how a Senate trial works. Of course, he will just make stuff up. Or more accurately, Grisham and Miller will make stuff up to appease his royal orange temper, and he will parrot it incorrectly as finger-pinching fact. You-esh-ay!
 
Segnosaur said:
And even in the future we'll never know.

If the Democrats lose the next election, is it because of their actions over impeachment hurt them? Or was Trump going to win anyways (because of voter suppression, Russian assistance, the layout of the electoral college) and the impeachment helped but not enough.

And if the Democrats win the next election, is it because the impeachment helped highlight the corrupt nature of the republicans? Or were they going to win anyways, and the impeachment was largely a non-issue?
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You know pollsters might ask those questions in exit polls. But the fact is, we'll never know the answers. Polling is not as good as it used to be. It is structurally harder than ever to get a representative sample.

That said, my guess is no. The impeachment process itself will make little or no difference on the 2020 election.

Very few people are neutral on Trump. Either you despise him. Or you're voting for him because he serves a purpose or god forbid you actually like this sleazeball. And those numbers have been set in stone since about a year into his Presidency.

If Trump wins reelection it will be far more likely because of voter suppression than anything else.
 
acbytesla said:
More piles of manure from this one. Cold feet has nothing to do with it.

McConnell has publicly declared that he is not a fair juror. So has Senator Graham. McConnell has said there will be no witnesses. No public testimony at all.

In the meantime Trump has been impeached. First President in history to be impeached in his first term.
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LOL. There's nothing in the Constitution about anything in impeachment being fair. If there was, there would be no impeachment allowed with articles of impeachment that included no crime and then weren't even sent over to the Senate. The Founding Fathers were well aware of political partisanship, which is why they required a 2/3 vote in the Senate. They probably didn't anticipate a Speaker who was deranged enough to bring articles of impeachment even while knowing the votes weren't there in the Senate.
 
acbytesla said:
You know pollsters might ask those questions in exit polls. But the fact is, we'll never know the answers. Polling is not as good as it used to be. It is structurally harder than ever to get a representative sample.

That said, my guess is no. The impeachment process itself will make little or no difference on the 2020 election.

Very few people are neutral on Trump. Either you despise him. Or you're voting for him because he serves a purpose or god forbid you actually like this sleazeball. And those numbers have been set in stone since about a year into his Presidency.

If Trump wins reelection it will be far more likely because of voter suppression than anything else.
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I disagree. For me, The Mushy Middle has a tendency to go with "better the devil you know" (which was great in 2012 but not so much this time around) rather than having any strong ideological feelings for any candidate. For them it's more "don't take it personal-it's just business.
 
Norman Alexander said:
Everyone in the USA knows he is now impeached. So he can call fake all he wants; doesn't make it so. Even less so now the US government has slapped his wrist with an arrest warrant.

Instead, it makes him a better political target for his opponents. Mainly because Trump can't explain how the system works that he did get impeached, nor how a Senate trial works. Of course, he will just make stuff up. Or more accurately, Grisham and Miller will make stuff up to appease his royal orange temper, and he will parrot it incorrectly as finger-pinching fact. You-esh-ay!
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The sound bite from his last rally was Trump declaring victory because no Republicans voted for impeachment and the crowd goes wild with screams and cheers. :crazy:
 
Elagabalus said:
I disagree. For me, The Mushy Middle has a tendency to go with "better the devil you know" (which was great in 2012 but not so much this time around) rather than having any strong ideological feelings for any candidate. For them it's more "don't take it personal-it's just business.
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You're entitled to your opinion. And with any other President, I would agree. But Trump is a disgusting POS. There very few neutral opinions about him.
 
BrooklynBaby said:
LOL. There's nothing in the Constitution about anything in impeachment being fair. If there was, there would be no impeachment allowed with articles of impeachment that included no crime and then weren't even sent over to the Senate. The Founding Fathers were well aware of political partisanship, which is why they required a 2/3 vote in the Senate. They probably didn't anticipate a Speaker who was deranged enough to bring articles of impeachment even while knowing the votes weren't there in the Senate.
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Again you have demonstrated your ignorance. The founders believed that impeachment would be a regular occurrence. Do you know how many people have been impeached? I do. Do you know how many were convicted? I do. It's much less than you probably would guess.

Guess they don't teach US History in St Petersburg.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
The sound bite from his last rally was Trump declaring victory because no Republicans voted for impeachment and the crowd goes wild with screams and cheers. :crazy:
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Was that before or after he lied about Debbie Dingell calling him, suggesting the security guards be 'a little bit stonger' with a woman protester, dragged in his 'off limits' son, Barron, and claimed little or no water comes out of sinks and showers due to water restrictors? Was that before or after he, again, lied about being Michigan's Man of the Year, lied about how the cameras never show the people at the rally, and on and on on?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Right, lying under oath about something people in divorce courts across the county lie about by the thousands every day is relatively not serious.

A corrupt move to cheat in the upcoming election is very serious.
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Lying to a Grand Jury is a felony. Still, given Clinton's underlying offenses, blowjobs and fun with cigars, I have to agree that his impeachment was politically motivated. The current impeachment also seems to be politically motivated, and the outcome looks to be similar if not identical, even if you think the offense is worse.
 
BrooklynBaby said:
They probably didn't anticipate a Speaker who was deranged enough to bring articles of impeachment even while knowing the votes weren't there in the Senate.
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You mean like Newt Gingrich?

Your post shows how much you know about the subject. Which is very little.

Trump is the 15th person to be impeached by the House of Representatives and the third President (Nixon was not impeached although Articles were drawn up. The House was set to vote on them but Nixon resigned before they could)

Of those 15 people, only 4 were convicted in the Senate. A few resigned before the tial. About 2/3rds were acquitted including President Johnson and President Clinton.
 
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Marcus said:
Lying to a Grand Jury is a felony. Still, given Clinton's underlying offenses, blowjobs and fun with cigars, I have to agree that his impeachment was politically motivated. The current impeachment also seems to be politically motivated, and the outcome looks to be similar if not identical, even if you think the offense is worse.
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:rolleyes:

Did you feel obligated to repeat this because of my comment? Tell me, was I right? People perjure themselves without consequence in divorce courts every day?

Other than claiming political motivation, how you weigh Clinton's perjury compared to asking a foreign government to lie about Trump's political opponent to influence the upcoming election?
 
BrooklynBaby said:
LOL. There's nothing in the Constitution about anything in impeachment being fair. If there was, there would be no impeachment allowed with articles of impeachment that included no crime and then weren't even sent over to the Senate. The Founding Fathers were well aware of political partisanship, which is why they required a 2/3 vote in the Senate. They probably didn't anticipate a Speaker who was deranged enough to bring articles of impeachment even while knowing the votes weren't there in the Senate.
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The founding Fathers probably did not anticipate a Senator like Mitch McConnell ready to show the country what a full blown miscarriage of justice looks like.
 
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DetectedMotion said:
The founding Fathers probably did not anticipate a Senator like Mitch McConnell ready to show the country what a full blown miscarriage of justice looks like.
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Democrats had complete control over the process in the House of Representatives and simply don't want to deal in a situation that's reversed is the gist of it. It wasn't that hard to predict once the inquiry started that the impeachment would pass along party lines and... eventually croak in some form or another by the time it gets to the senate for similar reasons... Not sure many quite expected the impeachment articles not being sent to the Senate for trial right away.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
Democrats had complete control over the process in the House of Representatives and simply don't want to deal in a situation that's reversed is the gist of it. It wasn't that hard to predict once the inquiry started that the impeachment would pass along party lines and... eventually croak in some form or another by the time it gets to the senate for similar reasons... Not sure many quite expected the impeachment articles not being sent to the Senate for trial right away.
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That's an easy narrative letting you ignore the evidence in the impeachment.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
Democrats had complete control over the process in the House of Representatives and simply don't want to deal in a situation that's reversed is the gist of it. It wasn't that hard to predict once the inquiry started that the impeachment would pass along party lines and... eventually croak in some form or another by the time it gets to the senate for similar reasons... Not sure many quite expected the impeachment articles not being sent to the Senate for trial right away.
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When you have the Senate leader telling the press that he is working with the perpetrator on how to proceed with the process AND without having ALL potential witnesses involved questioned(With the perpetrator ordering them to not testify), then you have impartiality already thrown out of the equation.

Which makes it a total miscarriage of justice, pure and simple.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
Democrats had complete control over the process in the House of Representatives and simply don't want to deal in a situation that's reversed is the gist of it. It wasn't that hard to predict once the inquiry started that the impeachment would pass along party lines and... eventually croak in some form or another by the time it gets to the senate for similar reasons... Not sure many quite expected the impeachment articles not being sent to the Senate for trial right away.
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You mean they want an actual fair trial with witnesses? The charlatans! How dare they!

How many trials are you familiar with Bear where jurors declare they have no intention of being fair?

How many trials do you know where half the jurors are coordinating the defense with the defendant?

How many Federal investigations are you familiar with where the President prevented witnesses to testify and documents to be forwarded to the investigators?

The Democrats ran a very fair impeachment inquiry.
Trump was afforded the right to have counsel present. He declined.
Trump was asked to testify. He declined.
Republicans were allowed exactly as much time as the Democrats to question the witnesses. And yet they never asked questions about the evidence presented.
The facts of this case have never been refuted. Not by anyone.
All they wanted to was to expose the whistleblower and make it about Hunter Biden.

The House of Representatives and the nation have EVERY RIGHT to see a trial with evidence laid out before them. And that is the last thing the Republicans want to happen.
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