Cont: House Impeachment Inquiry - part 2

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Grizzly Bear said:
Ii do find it amazing that Trumps release of the ukraine call transcripts is construed as a confession yet Bidens hot mic moment bragging about withholding the release of funds to the same country is completely ignored and thrown under the bus.

It's like folks pushing for Trumps accountabilty for his actions dictate that the other party cannot be held to the same standards... let alone hold a position that is critical of both. This is the prime example of the horrendous polarization going on among all of this.

Bidens case isnt the first or the last of its kind... but sure does take a center stage in the current issues when it comes to double standards regarding accountability
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I feel compelled to demonstrate my left of center bona fides.

I have to disagree here. Biden's actions have been examined closely, and were determined to have a perfectly legitimate purpose, consistent with US policy, quite independent of personal gain for either him or his son. Corruption in the Ukraine was a problem, and that prosecutor was generally believed by many in the US and in Europe to be at the heart of the corruption.

So, the cases of Biden and Trump vis. a. vis. Ukranian corruption are not really comparable.

Or at least, so it would seem in the absence of further evidence.
 
Meadmaker said:
I feel compelled to demonstrate my left of center bona fides.

I have to disagree here. Biden's actions have been examined closely, and were determined to have a perfectly legitimate purpose, consistent with US policy, quite independent of personal gain for either him or his son. Corruption in the Ukraine was a problem, and that prosecutor was generally believed by many in the US and in Europe to be at the heart of the corruption.

So, the cases of Biden and Trump vis. a. vis. Ukranian corruption are not really comparable.

Or at least, so it would seem in the absence of further evidence.
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What is that little redundancy doing? Redundant in the sense it applies in all cases.
 
Sideroxylon said:
What is that little redundancy doing? Redundant in the sense it applies in all cases.
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It's noting that while Biden can be demonstrated to have a non-corrupt purpose, the possibility that a corrupt purpose was also present has not been sufficiently explored to dismiss it out of hand. Hunter Biden really was a son of a vice president on the board of directors of a company with important foreign policy connections, and made a ton of money from the deal. That's kind of interesting and might be worthy of attention. There's no evidence right now that suggests that there was anything corrupt at all about Biden and his son, but it's something that might raise some eyebrows and be worthy of investigation.

Meanwhile, if there were any such evidence, that perhaps there was some corruption involved with Joe and/or Hunter Biden, then it would make Trump's request for an investigation perfectly legitimate.

So, in the absence of any such evidence, it seems that Trump was pursuing political gain, while Joe was pursuing US policy, but I think there is at least some possibility that the situation is a bit murkier.
 
Meadmaker said:
I feel compelled to demonstrate my left of center bona fides.

I have to disagree here. Biden's actions have been examined closely, and were determined to have a perfectly legitimate purpose, consistent with US policy, quite independent of personal gain for either him or his son. Corruption in the Ukraine was a problem, and that prosecutor was generally believed by many in the US and in Europe to be at the heart of the corruption.

So, the cases of Biden and Trump vis. a. vis. Ukranian corruption are not really comparable.

Or at least, so it would seem in the absence of further evidence.
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That has nothing to do with where you are on the political spectrum. It's just recognizing that ice is cold, steam is hot and water is wet. Something Republicans these days seem incapable of.
 
bruto said:
I think perhaps that's as it should be. The tenure of a burger-flipper is tenuous, and depends on many factors regarding how the employer wants to be perceived by the public. The tenure of a president ought to be immune to any but the most serious charges.
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What?
Why?
Why should the Person with the power to ruin and kill millions whilst enriching himself corruptly be under less scrutiny than someone who might steal some food from work?
 
While I'm inclined to agree with many that Biden was not guilty of any crimes, I think a big point is missed here. Even if he had been, what Trump is accused of is criminal. International blackmail to defeat an opponent is criminal even if you're righteous and your opponent is not. Obstruction of Congress is impeachable even if you're innocent of the crimes they're trying to investigate.

Our nation has a long history of opposing vigilante justice and legal shortcuts, ruling that certain things are impermissible or inadmissable in their very nature. Rules that protect the innocent also protect the guilty...e.t.a. and by that I mean that Trump is wrong to break them. Biden is a red herring.
 
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bruto said:
... The tenure of a president ought to be immune to any but the most serious charges.
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Right, lying under oath about something people in divorce courts across the county lie about by the thousands every day is relatively not serious.

A corrupt move to cheat in the upcoming election is very serious.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
What?
Why?
Why should the Person with the power to ruin and kill millions whilst enriching himself corruptly be under less scrutiny than someone who might steal some food from work?
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I wouldn't mind seeing burger flippers better protected as well, but I am referring not to scrutiny but the power of overthrow. A president will always have enemies, and will always make decisions that anger some, and whether or not we like it, I think it's reasonable that a person in that kind of position should not be subject to constant challenges, recalls, and so forth, but must be able, not only to do the job, but to cause some offense, between elections. As compensation, we can fire elected politicians with or without good reason according to a schedule.
 
cullennz said:
I have a feeling when Trump wins again next year the thread about it will break several records for lengthiness, reporting and time-outs.

Will be funny to read though.
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Climate change is no longer a theory, it is a fact; its no longer up for debate. Yes, I know your post wasn't about that, but be patient, I'll get there.

The science is irrefutable. ALL indications, without exception, are that the Earth is heading towards becoming uninhabitable for human life. The world is accelerating headlong toward the climate change PNR (some scientists argue that we have already reached it).

IF Trump wins next year, then this forum, or the lengths of threads, or who has time out or bans, will not matter a jot, because the USA will be ******... in fact the world will probably ****** as well. Both might have been able to survive just four years of a narcissistic, climate change-denying, criminal, conspiracy theorist scumbag at the helm - I doubt it can survive eight years of it.
 
Is it me or do these New Zealanders except for smartcooky think this is all just fun and games? That you're somehow safe from someone like Trump's influence on geopolitical stability and the urgent need to combat climate change?

We need a ******* adult in the White House, and soon.
 
smartcooky said:
Climate change is no longer a theory, it is a fact; its no longer up for debate. Yes, I know your post wasn't about that, but be patient, I'll get there.

The science is irrefutable. ALL indications, without exception, are that the Earth is heading towards becoming uninhabitable for human life. The world is accelerating headlong toward the climate change PNR (some scientists argue that we have already reached it).

IF Trump wins next year, then this forum, or the lengths of threads, or who has time out or bans, will not matter a jot, because the USA will be ******... in fact the world will probably ****** as well. Both might have been able to survive just four years of a narcissistic, climate change-denying, criminal, conspiracy theorist scumbag at the helm - I doubt it can survive eight years of it.
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Same result with some billionaire-backed centrist hack.
 
smartcooky said:
Climate change is no longer a theory, it is a fact; its no longer up for debate. Yes, I know your post wasn't about that, but be patient, I'll get there.

The science is irrefutable. ALL indications, without exception, are that the Earth is heading towards becoming uninhabitable for human life. The world is accelerating headlong toward the climate change PNR (some scientists argue that we have already reached it).

IF Trump wins next year, then this forum, or the lengths of threads, or who has time out or bans, will not matter a jot, because the USA will be ******... in fact the world will probably ****** as well. Both might have been able to survive just four years of a narcissistic, climate change-denying, criminal, conspiracy theorist scumbag at the helm - I doubt it can survive eight years of it.
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^^^

Like this

Relax

The world does not revolve around the US
 
Venom said:
Is it me or do these New Zealanders except for smartcooky think this is all just fun and games? That you're somehow safe from someone like Trump's influence on geopolitical stability and the urgent need to combat climate change?
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Trust me, its not you.

I'd pick one other kiwi poster (that I know is a kiwi) who does understand the impact the world's biggest economy has on their lives, and that's PhantomWolf. The rest have utterly no clue (or if they do, its doesn't show in their postings).

I think Australians understand this a lot better than we do.

Venom said:
We need a ******* adult in the White House, and soon.
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Yeah, this.

FFS, you have a nutcase in the White House who thinks the noise from windmills causes cancer; who thinks there were airfields during the Revolutionary War; who was stunned to find that Seoul was only 35 miles from the NK border, and wanted the whole city to be evacuated to a safer distance.
 
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smartcooky said:
Trust me, its not you.

I'd pick one other kiwi poster (that I know is a kiwi) who does understand the impact the world's biggest economy has on their lives, and that's PhantomWolf. The rest have utterly no clue (or if they do, its doesn't show in their postings).

I think Australians understand this a lot better than we do.



Yeah, this.

FFS, you have a nutcase in the White House who thinks the noise from windmills causes cancer; who thinks there were airfields during the Revolutionary War; who was stunned to find that Seoul was only 35 miles from the NK border, and wanted the whole city to be evacuated to a safer distance.
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What I know is the Dems and left press have brought it on themselves.

It is almost like I have been saying this will happen the moment they pulled the pitchforks out.

Trump will win again and it is their fault
 
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