Cont: House Impeachment Inquiry - part 2

[Sideroxylon]

But, Jesus?

They speak for him. Just ask them.

 

[acbytesla]

Ii do find it amazing that Trumps release of the ukraine call transcripts is construed as a confession yet Bidens hot mic moment bragging about withholding the release of funds to the same country is completely ignored and thrown under the bus.

The two actions are very different. Biden's were those of the stated official US policy, State Department, and international community. Trump's were in violation of US policy and unbeknownst to those State Department officials specifically tasked with US policy toward Ukraine.

The equation of the two acts demonstrates total dishonesty or total ignorance. Now, no one need be ashamed for ignorance unless it is willful. Dishonesty is another matter.

 

[varwoche]

One of these things is not like the other.

They're so unalike that it's hard to fathom someone foisting such ignorant nonsense not named Nunes or Jordan.

@Grizzly Bear - there is not so much as one Dem rep, nor even one regular poster here in this sub-forum I'm willing to bet, who isn't aware the US routinely conditions aid in the national interest.

 

[Stacyhs]

Ii do find it amazing that Trumps release of the ukraine call transcripts is construed as a confession yet Bidens hot mic moment bragging about withholding the release of funds to the same country is completely ignored and thrown under the bus.

It's like folks pushing for Trumps accountabilty for his actions dictate that the other party cannot be held to the same standards... let alone hold a position that is critical of both. This is the prime example of the horrendous polarization going on among all of this.

Bidens case isnt the first or the last of its kind... but sure does take a center stage in the current issues when it comes to double standards regarding accountability

What part of withholding funds following national policy vs for personal gain is confusing you?

 

[alfaniner]

Bribery is "You got something I want."
Extortion is "I got something you don't want."

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Fixed that for you.

Did it really? Wow, missed that.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Trump Tweets

So after the Democrats gave me no Due Process in the House, no lawyers, no witnesses, no nothing, they now want to tell the Senate how to run their trial. Actually, they have zero proof of anything, they will never even show up. They want out. I want an immediate trial!

Ooow, this is so precious, you go Nancy!

 

[varwoche]

Except like Nancy said, all roads lead to Russia. Bear in mind, shifting blame to Ukraine for 2016 meddling is straight out of the Putin playbook.

Putin told him.

After meeting privately in July 2017 with Russian President Vladimir Putin at the Group of 20 summit in Hamburg, Trump grew more insistent that Ukraine worked to defeat him, according to multiple former officials familiar with his assertions.
...
One former senior White House official said Trump even stated so explicitly at one point, saying he knew Ukraine was the real culprit because “Putin told me.”

 

[acbytesla]

Bribery is "You got something I want."
Extortion is "I got something you don't want."

Bribery is also I got something you want in exchange for an official act (and)
Extortion is withholding something you need or entitled to in exchange for your act.

It's a nice country you have there Zelensky. It would be a shame to see it go up in flames if you don't have the weapons you need to defend it.

 

[cullennz]

Not sure how reliable the article is and could have already been posted, but apparently Trump raised 5 million on the day of his impeachment.

https://nypost.com/2019/12/19/trump-campaign-raises-5-million-on-day-of-impeachment/

President Trump’s re-election campaign raked in $5 million in donations Wednesday — the day the House of Representatives voted to impeach him, his campaign manager said.

“Incredible fundraising numbers!” manager Brad Parscale tweeted.

“[Trump] has raised over [$5 million] (still growing) today as Americans use their wallet to show support against Pelosi’s impeachment hoax!” he added.

The Republican National Committee also brought in record fundraising numbers, gaining $20.6 million in the month of November, according to Federal Election Commission data obtained by Fox News.

Party officials told the network that it has the most cash on hand that it’s had since 2012...............

 

[Stacyhs]

Not sure how reliable the article is and could have already been posted, but apparently Trump raised 5 million on the day of his impeachment.

https://nypost.com/2019/12/19/trump-campaign-raises-5-million-on-day-of-impeachment/

A fool and his money are soon parted.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Trump has the best numbers.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

That's because Biden didn't say anything incriminating.

I must have missed the part where Biden pressured a foreign country into manufacturing dirt on a political rival. Can you fill me in on the details?

What part of withholding funds following national policy vs for personal gain is confusing you?

https://youtu.be/UXA--dj2-CY?t=22

Like I said, he was caught on camera bragging about it, which by your standards would be enough incrimination for Trump to be investigated. I get that you're immensely against Trump's efforts against Ukraine. I don't completely disagree with you on that position. What he did was wrong but is something that can be settled electorally... You all clearly don't agree with that, and can still push for Trumps removal over Ukraine if you feel his actions warrant that; I'm only pointing out the latest example of double standards rocking back and forth since it came up again since the entire matter of pushing him out is out of holding him accountable. Apparently accountability is not equal

But I get it, Trump is the bad guy. It's absolutely impossible for his actions to be wrong while discovering someone else bragged about playing a part in leveraging funding over a conflict of interest.
You can carry on about Trump. I already made my point, and the responses more or less sum up what I expected to see.

 

[cullennz]

I have a feeling when Trump wins again next year the thread about it will break several records for lengthiness, reporting and time-outs.

Will be funny to read though.

 

[I Am The Scum]

Like I said, he was caught on camera bragging about it. I get that you're immensely against Trump's efforts against Ukraine. I don't completely disagree with you on that position. What he did was wrong but is something that can be settled electorally... You all clearly don't agree with that, and can still push for Trumps removal over Ukraine if you feel his actions warrant that; I'm only pointing out the latest example of double standards rocking back and forth since it came up again.

But I get it, Trump is the bad guy. It's absolutely impossible for his actions to be wrong while discovering someone else bragged about playing a part in leveraging funding over a conflict of interest.
You can carry on about Trump. I already made my point, and the responses more or less sum up what I expected to see.

The two are not comparable. Just do the honorable thing and admit you made a mistake.

 

[Stacyhs]

https://youtu.be/m27vYukeyyY
Like I said, he was caught on camera bragging about it. I get that you're immensely against Trump's efforts against Ukraine. I don't completely disagree with you on that position. What he did was wrong. You and everyone else can still push for Trumps removal over Ukraine if you feel his actions warrant that; I'm only pointing out the latest example of double standards rocking back and forth since it came up again.
But I get it, Trump is the bad guy. It's absolutely impossible for his actions to be wrong while discovering someone else bragged about playing a part in leveraging funding over a conflict of interest. Apparently that not allowed.... is the take away

You are not understanding the fundamental difference between what Biden did and what Trump did.
Biden was following US national policy and in consensus with other international diplomats and the IMF. It had nothing to do with him personally or his son, but with a corrupt Ukrainian prosecutor (Shokin). On the other hand, Trump was attempting to force Ukraine to investigate Biden to his personal advantage in the 2020 election. There is a vast difference.

ETA: Politifact explains the difference clearly. I suggest you read it:

https://www.politifact.com/facebook...-posts-falsely-connect-trumps-impeachment-bi/

 

[Lurch]

Ii do find it amazing that Trumps release of the ukraine call transcripts is construed as a confession yet Bidens hot mic moment bragging about withholding the release of funds to the same country is completely ignored and thrown under the bus.

It's like folks pushing for Trumps accountabilty for his actions dictate that the other party cannot be held to the same standards... let alone hold a position that is critical of both. This is the prime example of the horrendous polarization going on among all of this.

Bidens case isnt the first or the last of its kind... but sure does take a center stage in the current issues when it comes to double standards regarding accountability

Biden was representing the US's official position--as well as that of numerous other NATO member states. A bunch of *governments* wanted that corrupt prosecutor gone. Biden, as VP, was presenting Ukraine the terms for an arrangement with the Government he spoke for.

Trump was representing himself, holding back material aid approved and granted by Congress (read: the People of the United States).

No small difference.

 

[Venom]

https://youtu.be/UXA--dj2-CY?t=22

Like I said, he was caught on camera bragging about it. I get that you're immensely against Trump's efforts against Ukraine. I don't completely disagree with you on that position. What he did was wrong but is something that can be settled electorally... You all clearly don't agree with that, and can still push for Trumps removal over Ukraine if you feel his actions warrant that; I'm only pointing out the latest example of double standards rocking back and forth since it came up again.

But I get it, Trump is the bad guy. It's absolutely impossible for his actions to be wrong while discovering someone else bragged about playing a part in leveraging funding over a conflict of interest.
You can carry on about Trump. I already made my point, and the responses more or less sum up what I expected to see.

Joe Biden was not the first to demand the Ukrainian prosecutor step down for stalling on corruption cases. He was already unpopular among Ukrainians and the West. At worst Biden rode the wave of distrust Ukraine's allies had for Shokin. Was he trying to help Hunter's business? If he was it's funny how everyone else was in on it too.

 

[Lurch]

https://youtu.be/UXA--dj2-CY?t=22

Like I said, he was caught on camera bragging about it, which by your standards would be enough incrimination for Trump to be investigated. I get that you're immensely against Trump's efforts against Ukraine. I don't completely disagree with you on that position. What he did was wrong but is something that can be settled electorally... You all clearly don't agree with that, and can still push for Trumps removal over Ukraine if you feel his actions warrant that; I'm only pointing out the latest example of double standards rocking back and forth since it came up again since the entire matter of pushing him out is out of holding him accountable. Apparently accountability is not equal

But I get it, Trump is the bad guy. It's absolutely impossible for his actions to be wrong while discovering someone else bragged about playing a part in leveraging funding over a conflict of interest.
You can carry on about Trump. I already made my point, and the responses more or less sum up what I expected to see.

What's wrong with 'bragging' about effecting a policy change that benefits *the national interest*? For both the US *and* Ukraine. The latter because it permitted her to receive monetary assistance after demonstrating a good faith effort in curbing corruption.

This focusing on the 'bragging' by Joe seems to me to be in the same vein as pointing out the money Hunter was raking in. Smells a bit like jealousy, and certainly stinks of cheap smearing. No evidence of wrongdoing, so let's stir the pot with obvious insinuation.

 

[acbytesla]

https://youtu.be/UXA--dj2-CY?t=22

Like I said, he was caught on camera bragging about it, which by your standards would be enough incrimination for Trump to be investigated. I get that you're immensely against Trump's efforts against Ukraine. I don't completely disagree with you on that position. What he did was wrong but is something that can be settled electorally... You all clearly don't agree with that, and can still push for Trumps removal over Ukraine if you feel his actions warrant that; I'm only pointing out the latest example of double standards rocking back and forth since it came up again since the entire matter of pushing him out is out of holding him accountable. Apparently accountability is not equal

But I get it, Trump is the bad guy. It's absolutely impossible for his actions to be wrong while discovering someone else bragged about playing a part in leveraging funding over a conflict of interest.
You can carry on about Trump. I already made my point, and the responses more or less sum up what I expected to see.

Wilful obstinance does not reflect well on you. Biden was carrying out EU and US policy to deal with general corruption in the Ukraine. Trump was carrying out his own secret policy to destroy his political opponent.