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Cont: House Impeachment Inquiry - part 2

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BrooklynBaby said:
Not surprising Democrats support Schiff and his bunker star chamber. Not surprising at all. For some reason, people who have lost their moral compass never seem to realize it until it is too late to unring that bell. You know, having hit it with a sledgehammer, and all...
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Have you missed all the public hearings, then?
 
CapelDodger said:
One result of the impeachment inquiry is that the Republican Party has disappeared completely into the CT alt-world, as quite a few people predicted they would eventually.
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Yep. Years ago, when the CT forum was one of the most active we had here, I tried to explain that widespread belief in CTs would be destructive to democracy. When "It's all a plot!", what's the point in elections? If you really believe one side is fixing the election, you either try to fix it yourself, or you abandon elections entirely.

And that's what we're seeing now. Lots of people on both sides have lost, or are starting to lose, their faith that the next election will be a free and fair one. And reversing that will be extraordinarily difficult. I'm not sure if it will even be possible.
 
BrooklynBaby said:
Not surprising Democrats support Schiff and his bunker star chamber. Not surprising at all. For some reason, people who have lost their moral compass never seem to realize it until it is too late to unring that bell. You know, having hit it with a sledgehammer, and all...
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Please help me understand: which moral principle is being violated by the House investigating the President?
 
JoeMorgue said:
I've said it before. Trump is a genie that will not be easy to put back in the bottle.

The biggest gut check of the last few years has been the realization of how much of the stability in our government was based on the honor system, or a puppet theater act of it which amounts to the same thing, and how much a dishonest agent breaks it without an easy way of reigning him in.

But, and you've be naive and disillusion to think otherwise, right now there are a lot of people where the thought of "Well okay... but all we have to do is get our version, the good version, of Trump into office and have him just get what he wants by not playing the game" is starting to creep into and solidify in their mind. And that's not good.

We've already heard minor variations on "No we can't fix that yet, we have to keep it to undue the damage Trump has done..." on this board already.

Trump's success is not being lost on politicians of all stripes, you can take that to bank. As disgusted and opposed to his actions as they might be, there is not a politicians in the country right now that doesn't at least a teeny-tiny voice in his head going "But it's been so easy for him to break the system... but if you do that you won't break the system no siree, you'll just fix it. So what if..."

We need to silence that voice.
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I'm somewhat reminded here of the reaction of many to the financial meltdown of a few years ago, in which a surprising number of people suggested that the best way to undo the damage done by financial misdeeds was to hire the people who did it because they were the only ones who understood it. When you realize you're speeding toward the precipice, the answer seems not to slow down but to speed in another direction.
 
Bob001 said:
I have looked into it. It's not easy. The Canadians don't want us.
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It's really not that hard. Just find a cute Canadian to marry.

Alternatively you can get a work or study permit. We get tons of Europeans and Africans (lots of French speakers on the contient) here.
 
JoeMorgue said:
I've said it before. Trump is a genie that will not be easy to put back in the bottle.

The biggest gut check of the last few years has been the realization of how much of the stability in our government was based on the honor system, or a puppet theater act of it which amounts to the same thing, and how much a dishonest agent breaks it without an easy way of reigning him in.

But, and you've be naive and disillusion to think otherwise, right now there are a lot of people where the thought of "Well okay... but all we have to do is get our version, the good version, of Trump into office and have him just get what he wants by not playing the game" is starting to creep into and solidify in their mind. And that's not good.

We've already heard minor variations on "No we can't fix that yet, we have to keep it to undue the damage Trump has done..." on this board already.

Trump's success is not being lost on politicians of all stripes, you can take that to bank. As disgusted and opposed to his actions as they might be, there is not a politicians in the country right now that doesn't at least a teeny-tiny voice in his head going "But it's been so easy for him to break the system... but if you do that you won't break the system no siree, you'll just fix it. So what if..."

We need to silence that voice.
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I disagree. I've actually come around to the notion that what we need is an anti-Trump.

The Democrats have been trying to be the adult in the room for four decades. It doesn't work. It might be a good tactical move at times but it's not a viable strategy in the long term, because the Republicans (now the Trumpers) have no reason not to screw things up as often and as hard as they can, and occupy the Democrats' time just cleaning up their mess. If you go with a sensible moderate whose main concern is trying to install reasonable measures on abuse of power, expect the Trumpers to stall while screaming bloody murder for four or eight years until they get another Trump in office. As long as they are the only ones benefiting from a lack of compromise, they have zero interest in fostering it. None.

But with a progressive extremist in the White House, the kind of anti-Trump bleeding heart mofo who'd be just as willing to burn the goddamn place down as Trump is, who for context isn't even running in this election, I'd bet we'd suddenly see a LOT more cooperation from the Trumpers. Moscow Mitch wouldn't be so much of an obstructionist asshat when it comes to permanent safeguards, if the alternative is his donors get their laundered wealth nationalized by executive order.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
The Democrats have been trying to be the adult in the room for four decades. It doesn't work. It might be a good tactical move at times but it's not a viable strategy in the long term, because the Republicans (now the Trumpers) have no reason not to screw things up as often and as hard as they can, and occupy the Democrats' time just cleaning up their mess.
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And then complain that the Democrats are focusing on cleaning up the mess and aren't doing anything.

But with a progressive extremist in the White House, the kind of anti-Trump bleeding heart mofo who'd be just as willing to burn the goddamn place down as Trump is, who for context isn't even running in this election, I'd bet we'd suddenly see a LOT more cooperation from the Trumpers. Moscow Mitch wouldn't be so much of an obstructionist asshat when it comes to permanent safeguards, if the alternative is his donors get their laundered wealth nationalized by executive order.
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No, they'll still be screaming bloody murder, and bide their time. They'll just make sure it'll be a lot harder for a Democrat to win next time.

See, they don't have to deal with a democrat in power if they just flip the chess board and change the rules of the game.
 
Belz... said:
No, they'll still be screaming bloody murder, and bide their time. They'll just make sure it'll be a lot harder for a Democrat to win next time.

See, they don't have to deal with a democrat in power if they just flip the chess board and change the rules of the game.
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All of which they're already doing. You can't fix scorched earth by being reasonable at it.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
All of which they're already doing. You can't fix scorched earth by being reasonable at it.
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Maybe not, but what I'm saying is that Moscow Mitch will not change the rules if it benefits him the next time around. The Democrats have to win big in order to change them back, before it's too late.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
I disagree. I've actually come around to the notion that what we need is an anti-Trump.
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That's fine if you trust the Dems to get power and just literally never do anything wrong it or never change and never have their version of Trump.

I do not.
 
JoeMorgue said:
That's fine if you trust the Dems to get power and just literally never do anything wrong it or never change and never have their version of Trump.

I do not.
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That's more likely to happen than the Trumpers getting tired of winning and voluntarily setting aside their power.
 
Bob001 said:
I have looked into it. It's not easy. The Canadians don't want us.
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That's what I found as well. All I wanted was to move myself, my wife, and a couple of million dollars in assets into their country, spend my pension and Social Security on their economy, and not take any jobs away from Canadians. Ain't happening.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
That's more likely to happen than the Trumpers getting tired of winning and voluntarily setting aside their power.
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And the only way Palpatine could stop the Seperatists was to be granted emergency powers to create a clone army.

No. The Dems don't get a double standard because they are "Stopping Trump and he's worse."

And, before you start, "Trump is worse" is true, you don't have to convince me of it.
 
JoeMorgue said:
But, and you've be naive and disillusion to think otherwise, right now there are a lot of people where the thought of "Well okay... but all we have to do is get our version, the good version, of Trump into office and have him just get what he wants by not playing the game" is starting to creep into and solidify in their mind.
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That's very questionable at best, but you make it absolutely absurd when you claim it's "naive" to think otherwise. Where are these people? Point one of them out to me, please.

The same people who would approve of someone like Trump approve of this specific instance of Trumpish behavior.
 
BrooklynBaby said:
Not surprising Democrats support Schiff and his bunker star chamber. Not surprising at all.
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You must have an IV with a constant GOP Kool Aid drip.

In what way were the deposition hearings a "bunker star chamber"? Were Republicans not allowed to attend? Were the times and place of the hearings withheld from the Republicans? Were they not allowed to ask questions or otherwise participate in an equal manner?

For some reason, people who have lost their moral compass never seem to realize it until it is too late to unring that bell. You know, having hit it with a sledgehammer, and all...
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On this we agree. My moral compass does not include supporting a multi-wife serial adulterer who had sex with a porn star while his third wife had just given birth to their son, who paid her off and then bald faced lied to the American people about it, who disrespects women and brags about being able to 'whatever he wants' to them because he's a celebrity, who behaves like a childish name calling bully on the playground, and who is narcissist and a pathological liar who tells an average of 12 lies a day. And those don't even include his political immorality:
cozying up to murderous asshats like Kim Jun Un, Putin, and bin Salman, separating thousands of children from their parents, betraying the Kurds, undoing anything Obama related out of his own petty jealousy of a far better man, rolling back environmental protections, denying climate change, damaging our relationships with long time allies, and the list goes on and on.

Yes, people who lose their moral compass don't seem to realize it until too late. I suggest Republicans who continue to support Trump take a good long look in a mirror.
 
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