horrifying attack on Jussie Smollett

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I can't believe that anyone cares about what Ellen page dribbles out of her mouth.

She went on TV and blamed the Vice president for this obvious hoax.
 
Well as long as bunch of racists get to go "Oh this is another hoax... just like that Smollett guy" the next time a cop gives a fleeing black guy 327 warning shots to the back on video, all is good.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Well as long as bunch of racists get to go "Oh this is another hoax... just like that Smollett guy" the next time a cop gives a fleeing black guy 327 warning shots to the back on video, all is good.
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I disagree. Even if he's not black!
 
alfaniner said:
I find it amazing how suddenly I ceased caring about this story (today) after following it since the beginning.
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I'm the opposite, this is the type of thing that is going to piss me off when nothing happens to the guy, and in 5 years he is back to acting and people remember him as "that guy who got beat up. ..I think"
 
Drewbot said:
Body Language Expert dissects Smollett appearance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH7IalJyMjk
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Probably a lot easier now that everyone knows he lied. Having not gone to the link, what are the odds this expert came out before Smollett was determined to have lied to let everyone know that he was, in fact, lying?

As an aside, I’m reminded of the old quip, “I knew he was lying because his lips were moving.”
 
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Spock Jenkins said:
Probably a lot easier now that everyone knows he lied. Having not gone to the link, what are the odds this expert came out before Smollett was determined to have lied to let everyone know that he was, in fact, lying?
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I'm reminded of hand writing analysis.

"Okay the note reads: I AM GOING TO KILL YOU BY BEATING YOU TO DEATH WITH A DILDO WHILE WEARING A CLOWN SUIT AND THEN WEAR YOUR LIVER AS A HAT! Okay well he's obviously crazy and violent, you can tell via the double swirl he puts on his G's."
 
theprestige said:
That's not the element that some are seeing as highly improbable. It's the combination of elements, taken in their entirety. I thought I explained that pretty clearly in my post which you quoted but apparently didn't read.
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You speak for yourself. Some (although not all) also read my post, which had some (but apparently not all) necessary qualifiers.

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Thanks for all who put forward the pattern they're seeing. Advancing a testable claim is much more intellectually brave than insisting you were right all along ...post hoc... and much more useful than focusing on only the conclusion. 'Showing the work' as it was. Obviously most actually did state reasons for their conclusions as they were making them for this case as well, but seeing what they consider part of the pattern in general can refine red flag detection.

What did you all see as elements of this case inconsistent with the false claim pattern? Which would be consistent with the pattern of general real attacks with 'hate crime' elements (I phrase it like that, because I don't want to exclude ones that have all most of the elements of hate crimes but are not officially tallied as such, like my friends who got sucker punched and called 'fag' the night after Trump's election)?
 
tyr_13 said:
What did you all see as elements of this case inconsistent with the false claim pattern?
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I don't think I saw anything that was inconsistent with a false claim. There was a lot of stuff that was consistent with both a true claim and a false one. But one of the problems from the very beginning was that Smollett offered nothing that could help distinguish a true claim from a false one.

The meme of "pics or it didn't happen" emerged for precisely this reason. Because actual photographic or video evidence of an event helps us to distinguish between true claims and false ones. If I had seen pictures, it would have been a real differentiator for me. But there were no pictures, nor was there any other evidence presented that would help to differentiate.

A little upthread, JoeMorgue jokes (I hope) about people claiming a hoax the next time a police officer shoots a fleeing black man in the back.

But in that scenario, there's distinguishing evidence. There's a body, and bullets, and probably a lot of other stuff too. There might be some question about the cop's motivation (racist? justified? poor training? etc.), but no question of a "hoax"...

... Unless someone claims it happened but can't produce the body, or camera footage, or corroborating witnesses, etc. You can't just accept that claim at face value, without evidence, on the strength of "well we know it happened with some other cop at some other time and place, so it probably happened here".
 
tyr_13 said:
What did you all see as elements of this case inconsistent with the false claim pattern? Which would be consistent with the pattern of general real attacks with 'hate crime' elements (I phrase it like that, because I don't want to exclude ones that have all most of the elements of hate crimes but are not officially tallied as such, like my friends who got sucker punched and called 'fag' the night after Trump's election)?
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The basics. Black/gay man being attacked by two white dudes(though that details was fabricated) and even yelling epithets are in my opinion consistent with a real hate crime.

Its the details that were red flags for me, though not enough for me to immediately jump to hoax, I had much more of a "could go either way, I'll wait and see attitude."
 
sadhatter said:
I'm the opposite, this is the type of thing that is going to piss me off when nothing happens to the guy, and in 5 years he is back to acting and people remember him as "that guy who got beat up. ..I think"
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More Likely, he'll be known as "The Boy Who Cried MAGA".
 
Puppycow said:
Ellen Page on hate crimes:

Ellen Page on Jussie Smollett Fallout: Hate Violence Is Not a Hoax (Guest Column)

I don't really have a huge problem with what she writes here in general except to note that she didn't look carefully at the underlying data that she cites to claim that there is "a rising tide of hate violence". In the other thread it was noted that data from year to year is not directly comparable because different numbers of police departments report data from year to year, and a large number (890 I believe) that hadn't previously been reporting data started reporting it in 2017. And of course, not all police departments are the same size.

To summarize, she starts with, Never mind the Jussie Smollett case, let me tell you about this other hate crime that really happened. (Some drunk guy at a football game harassed and attacked a lesbian couple in front of dozens of witnesses. The other fans "tackled him to the ground". story here). But OK, nobody ever questioned that that one was real.



Overall, I think she's misunderstanding the skepticism about the Jussie Smollett case and conflating it with people doubting that hate crimes happen at all.
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Those who are concerned about Hate Crimes should be the first to denounce Smollett for what he did, damaging the creditability of all legit Hate Crime victims.
 
carlitos said:
You can gain as much wisdom from a "body language expert" as you can from a psychic or palm-reader.
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The problem with body language experts is they often interpret the same body gesture or movement in a dozen different ways.
 
dudalb said:
Those who are concerned about Hate Crimes should be the first to denounce Smollett for what he did, damaging the creditability of all legit Hate Crime victims.
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I agree. And several have already denounced what he did for that reason.
 
tyr_13 said:
Thanks for all who put forward the pattern they're seeing. Advancing a testable claim is much more intellectually brave than insisting you were right all along ...post hoc... and much more useful than focusing on only the conclusion. 'Showing the work' as it was. Obviously most actually did state reasons for their conclusions as they were making them for this case as well, but seeing what they consider part of the pattern in general can refine red flag detection.

What did you all see as elements of this case inconsistent with the false claim pattern? Which would be consistent with the pattern of general real attacks with 'hate crime' elements (I phrase it like that, because I don't want to exclude ones that have all most of the elements of hate crimes but are not officially tallied as such, like my friends who got sucker punched and called 'fag' the night after Trump's election)?
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Let's go back to the original TMZ story. In the 4th post on the first page of this thread I posted a link to a story that in turn linked to the TMZ story, which was attributed to "Sources directly connected to Jussie". The three elements in that original story that most struck me as most suspicious were the rope (already fashioned into a noose), the bleach, and the letter. To a lesser extent, "this is MAGA country" struck me as farcical. (It might help to go back and re-read that story.)

Then I pondered, what exactly were these supposed assailants trying to do, if it's true? If their goal was to hurt Jussie, why not use more conventional weapons? A knife, a club, or a gun? Who goes around with bleach and a rope fashioned into a noose to attack people with? Why would they stop with just putting it around his neck and run away at that point?

Admittedly, at the time I could not prove that it was a hoax. But I felt confident enough that a police investigation would reveal it eventually, so I made my prediction right there. I wanted to say it before the police made it official because anyone can say "I knew it all along" after the fact. So I took a certain risk. Now, since estimates are that more than 90% of hate crime reports are real, and less than 10% are hoaxes, if my thinking was faulty, odds are that I would have ended up on the wrong end of that prediction, but I felt like the clues were strong enough in this case to go ahead and say it.
 
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Almost every detail of the story seemed phony, but not that he was attacked. I did believe he was probably attacked, just not the way he said it happened. I thought it more likely that something embarrassing happened, or that maybe he started the fight, and I believe I said so on page one.

But the main problem was when it was reported that he refused to let the police check his phone and wasn't fully cooperating. That was the main problem from day one. He was evasive.

His own behavior is what earned him my initial doubt, not just the details of his story.

And hell no I don't want this forgotten, this guy is a major piece of crap. What a selfish arrogant prick.

People actually give a crap what these idiot celebrities think for some reason. One good thing about the internet is that we can see how truly f'd up many of them are. Everyone from Deniro to Madonna, Trump, Spike, reporters, anyone else who opens their mouths. If nothing else, people should see how un-special these celebrities are.

Problem I guess is that many of the people watching and listening to them are also stupid, so it falls on deaf ears. Or worse.

Humans. Yay.
 
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While looking for Smollett news I found another hoax attack in Chicago. This one with a confession...

Police: Columbia College student made up Grant Park robbery story

Chicago Tribune said:
Authorities on Thursday said criminal charges could be filed against a Columbia College Chicago student who they said falsely reported being stabbed and robbed in Grant Park, but later confessed that the attack never occurred.

Chicago police and school officials initially raised a public alarm after the unidentified student, 23, told police she was walking in Grant Park about 9:50 p.m. Wednesday in the 100 block of East Ida B. Wells Drive when a man walked up to her and demanded money.

The man that she described as being black, approximately 20 to 30 years old and approximately 6 feet tall, stabbed her in the abdomen and fled with the victim’s credit card, authorities said.

She was taken to Northwestern Memorial Hospital and treated for non-life-threatening puncture wounds.

But investigators, much like in the recent Jussie Smollett case, weren’t able to find any video evidence to corroborate the attack and returned to the young woman with questions, Chicago police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said. The woman then confessed that the attack never took place, he said.

Guglielmi said criminal charges against the woman for filing a false report were possible, but added that it may have reflected a mental health emergency and said details were still being gathered...
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https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-grant-park-stabbing-20190307-story.html
 
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