Horizontal Ejections and Squibs

[papasmurf]

A very large amount of explosives would have to be used to collapse the building. This is indisputable among the sane and the intelligent species. The reason I dismiss a small amount of explosives to initiate collapse of an already compromised structure integrity is that because the collapse initiated at the very point of aircraft impact. How did these explosives survive aircraft impact, explosion, subsequent fires and displacement?

Mince, you keep saying that. I understand you doubt the plausibility of explosives being used. I did too for a very long time. However, i am asking for you to give an explanation for what you did see. My explanation is explosives. What is your explanation?

As soon as you realize that there is no good explanation, the easier it is to rationalize the use of explosives.


As to how they withstood fire? They didn't. There were no fires below the fires! They could have the technology to precisely control the altitude of the plane with remote control technology. It could have been sent to hit directly above where the demolitions were planted, or to be safe, maybe they did have explosions directly where the plane hit, and those DID exploded during the plane collision.

(as for the molten steel or iron dripping from the towers, of which thermate is suspect, it takes extreme temperatures to ignite thermate that are not even close to being reached by the fire that was burning, a special igniter is needed to create these temperatures to initiate the thermate reaction) But let's not discuss thermate here, we'll save that for another day.

 

[Hokulele]

Since my previous post was apparently invisible, let's try again with quotes this time.

All of them exhibit constant or increasing velocity during their lifetime. That's not a property of explosives.

There were no explosives or "squibs" observed on 9/11. The acceleration profiles are wrong for explosives, right for broken windows moving in a pixel stream of video, and air being compressed and escaping as it increases in speed during building collapse. The squib become a red flag, a way to spot people too challenged to think for themselves and figure out 9/11. 9/11 truth members are exposed to be fact less with the simple squib statement, or the "pull it" statement. Squibs, make it so easy to spot someone who has no clue on 9/11.

The sounds are missing for your collection of squibs. Funny stuff, too challenged to prove it, 9/11 truth just says it. What else can they do without facts?

Also might account for where the HVAC air handlers were. Also partition layout. Don't forget the windows impacted by debris movement inside the building will break first. Adjacent windows not impacted by blown furniture or debris will in all likelihood remain in place. If a window in a pressurized plane shatters objects are drawn through that window. not the adjacent ones. In a demolition explosion in a fully intact building with complete glazing I would expect all windows in the immediate area to shatter and a huge debris cloud to result.

The higher up "squib" is surely dust and loose rubble being ejected.

The lower "squibs" are smoke. There were fires on many floors due to some of the airplane fuel falling down the elevator shafts. Machinery from the elevators crashed down to the lobby and flames burnt a lot of people. It's reasonablew to assume there were small fires everywhere.

The "squibs" at the top of building seven are clearly windows popping as the building tips over.

Some quick calculations.

The volume of air contained within one floor of a WTC tower is roughly
(63m x 63m x 3,8 m) 15 000 cubic meters or 49 000 cubic feet.

Falling debris with a speed of 8 m/s would collapse a floor in less than 1/2 a second. When the speed has increased to 16 m/s the floor would be collapsed in less than 1/4 of a second.

Conclusion, a tremendous amount of air that needs to escape in a fraction of a second carrying dust, smoke and ash. That would be quiet an "explosive" event.

Someone has popped up at LCF with a relatively well thought out (for them) explanation of the appearance of "squibs" on the wtcs and their positioning in regards to the air venting systems.
Granted, he cant seem to keep on a rational train of thought all the way through his article but it is an interesting read.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=14028

 

[Alferd_Packer]

How did that air escape the building through midpoint windows 30 levels below the collapse front.

have you heard about the stairwell B survivors?

That was when the wind started, even before the noise. “No one realizes about the wind,” says Komorowski.

The building was pancaking down from the top and, in the process, blasting air down the stairwell. The wind lifted Komorowski off his feet. “I was taking a staircase at a time,” he says, “It was a combination of me running and getting blown down.” Lim says Komorowski flew over him. Eight seconds later—that’s how long it took the building to come down—Komorowski landed three floors lower, in standing position, buried to his knees in pulverized Sheetrock and cement.

Not only was the air being pushed down the stairs, but it was also going down the elevator shafts and the HVAC shafts as well.

Oh, and BTW, note the fact that the felt the wind before they heard the collapse. When did the explosives go off?

 

[njslim]

The building was pancaking down from the top and, in the process, blasting air down the stairwell. The wind lifted Komorowski off his feet. “I was taking a staircase at a time,” he says, “It was a combination of me running and getting blown down.” Lim says Komorowski flew over him. Eight seconds later—that’s how long it took the building to come down—Komorowski landed three floors lower, in standing position, buried to his knees in pulverized Sheetrock and cement.

The air blast was able to lift a 250lb fireman, loaded down with nearly 100lbs gear, off
his feet and fling him down several flights of stairs.

Yet none of these people were injured - something that would have happened if
explosives were used.

 

[stateofgrace]

I already addressed that point. Is that all you can do is repeat popular mechanics?

It is not just air, it is pulverized concrete.

Please explain FULLY how you came to this conclusion?

PS

Papasmurf,

I would like to get to know your theory better. From what you have written are you saying that nothing was happening inside the buildings below the "collapse point" you see on the videos that show the external columns peeling away?

Are you suggesting that the floor trusses inside the buildings were intact until your "collapse point" reached them?

That, nothing was falling inside the buildings?

 

[phunk]

I already addressed that point. Is that all you can do is repeat popular mechanics?

It is not just air, it is pulverized concrete.

Actually it's more crushed gypsum drywall, ceiling tiles, fireproofing, smoke, etc.

This piston that you speak of. I doubt it's even there. Most of the matter you talk about is ejected horizontally at the collapse front, there is no solid body to act like a piston.

The tallest parts of the rubble piles, by far, were the footprints of the two buildings. They did not eject most of the mass outward.

Think about what you are looking at. You are looking at a focalized point of emmission. Breaking though a window and shooting out jets debris. How great would this pressure need to be to cause the windows to break on multiple sides of teh buildings at teh same time like that?

Explosions in the core could not be 'focalized' on a single window. The logical explanation is that the pressure increased until the weakest window popped out, and then dropped and no more broke in that area. It's also possible that the pressure didn't break the window at all, and it was broken by a column shifting, or vibration from the collapse, or something else entirely. The focalized ejection is a sign of a slow pressure increase, not an explosion. Especially considering the fact that the ejections were blowing for several seconds, not a burst like an explosion, and the velocities seen were 2 orders of magnitude too slow to be explosive.

 

[Mince]

They could have the technology to precisely control the altitude of the plane with remote control technology. It could have been sent to hit directly above where the demolitions were planted, or to be safe, maybe they did have explosions directly where the plane hit, and those DID exploded during the plane collision.

And it could be that 9/11 never happened and the buildings are still there.

When you have empirical evidence (empirical, mind you) of explosives (not just "this makes no sense to me so it must have been explosives" evidence), then start a thread a make a point. Two theories seem implausible to you (though you can't even articulate why) so you come to a nefarious "explosives" conclusion?

Makes no sense dude.

 

[phunk]

This is some good footage. Please watch and try to explain what you see with the pressure wave theory. It is difficult for me. Maybe if i reallllllllly use my imagination...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ct9Gu_kW5s

You're right that is good footage. It shows some pretty convincing evidence of pancaking.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

It is not just air, it is pulverized concrete.

What had more volume per floor? the concrete slab, or the friable building materials ( i.e. ceiling tiles, drywall, fiberglass soundproofing, fireproofing, etc)

 

[Drudgewire]

NO! A "squib" is a movie special effect.

They're a special kind of explosive charge that nobody knows about except twoofers. See, they're an explosive... but they are used to set off explosives... because it adds an extra step to the process and that makes a lot more sense than using the same charge to just detonate the explosive that you use to detonate the squib first instead. By setting off the explosive with another explosive, it signals the special fairies hired by BushCo. to turn to the bombs to thermite.

Interesting fact, the command for blowing up a squib to blow up an explosive device is "pull it." This comes from the ancient Chinese tradition of setting off fireworks by loading them into giant slingshots, releasing them, and then doing the same thing to a second rag wrapped in oil and set ablaze. Sure, it would be easier to just set the rag on fire and light the fireworks with it first, but again... extra, pointless steps are the key to maximizing an explosives' power.

Man, applecorped was right. This is so much more fun when you don't have to rely on pesky facts or evidence and just talk directly out of your rump.

 

[beachnut]

This is some good footage. Please watch and try to explain what you see with the pressure wave theory. It is difficult for me. Maybe if i reallllllllly use my imagination...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ct9Gu_kW5s

That WTC video, floor hitting the floor below and the air is leaving like this building ejecting air as it falls, but in the WTC each floor is an acre, and it has lots of air as the floor fails and falls to the next in .8 to .07 seconds based on the fires collapse at .8, the last floor at 07 second. FAST. Math, physics, thing you promised but failed to do! Preparation.


This building is small and the air comes out.

The WTC fell and the energy released was over 100 TONS of TNT, due to gravity. Tell me falling building can't move air quick? (physics, E=mgh)

The WTC was moving lots of air out in under .1 second by the 52nd floor, more math. (with 9/8 m/s/s and such)


The dust is mostly insulation from the floors, ceiling tiles and tons of dry wall used for wall, used in 3 inch thick double dry wall fire proofing on core, used on the shell interior too, and pure dust. Your cement explosive theory is pure fantasy! Nice try, but the easy friable floor insulation goes first, ceiling tiles make dust easy, the drywall does a good job, but only some cement that is smashed makes dust. Go do it, find friable fireproofing insulation, ceiling tiles, wall board and concrete (light weight concrete 4 inch floors) and try to make dust! Who wins with the least force. But remember, there is 100 TONS of TNT energy due to mgh. Physics!…

 

[papasmurf]

Thousands of pounds of explosives. Tons of them were needed. I know.

Does anyone have proof that those focalized points of air are increasing in velocity and/or are too slow to be explosives? That is pretty important.

As for the floors falling inside of the building, it is a ridiculous notion. The buildings are falling at near free fall speed, it is impossible that one floor could fall that much faster than the rest of the building, and dislocate 20 other floors, and keep falling at that speed, and then all of a sudden eject a fissure of debris out the midpoint of the building.

You want me to believe that floors between the collapse front and the squibs to have fallen much faster than free fall allows, and defying conservation of momentum, and then for some reason after all those floors fell, they decided to break perfectly centered windows after 20 floors or so?

Please think before posting hypotheses.

 

[Drudgewire]

Thousands of pounds of explosives. Tons of them were needed. I know.

Does anyone have proof that those focalized points of air are increasing in velocity and/or are too slow to be explosives? That is pretty important.

As for the floors falling inside of the building, it is a ridiculous notion. The buildings are falling at near free fall speed, it is impossible that one floor could fall that much faster than the rest of the building, and dislocate 20 other floors, and keep falling at that speed, and then all of a sudden eject a fissure of debris out the midpoint of the building.

You want me to believe that floors between the collapse front and the squibs to have fallen much faster than free fall allows, and defying conservation of momentum, and then for some reason after all those floors fell, they decided to break perfectly centered windows after 20 floors or so?

Please think before posting hypotheses.

"Pancaking," "squibs," and "faster than free fall." You've hit the twoofer tribeca in under three pages. If it was still 2006, you might not have just made my ignore list.

 

[The Big Dog]

Since my previous post was apparently invisible, let's try again with quotes this time.

Yup, that last post was what I thinking about. The squibs are associated with the Mechanical floors, which have vents, and that was why I asked Papa Smurf if he was sure there were "windows there."

It went right over his little blue head.

 

[papasmurf]

That WTC video, floor hitting the floor below and the air is leaving like this building ejecting air as it falls, but in the WTC each floor is an acre, and it has lots of air as the floor fails and falls to the next in .8 to .07 seconds based on the fires collapse at .8, the last floor at 07 second. FAST. Math, physics, thing you promised but failed to do! Preparation.


This building is small and the air comes out.

The WTC fell and the energy released was over 100 TONS of TNT, due to gravity. Tell me falling building can't move air quick? (physics, E=mgh)

The WTC was moving lots of air out in under .1 second by the 52nd floor, more math. (with 9/8 m/s/s and such)

No beachnut, no. Those floors are still there, hence they have not yet pancaked to provide the pressure necessary to blast out the window. Floors pancaking above should not exert pressure on the floors below. If anything, the pancaking floor should blast the air out of the window in the pancaking region, or possibly directly below it.

 

[papasmurf]

That is a good point.. I think the point that they were on the mechanical floors strengthens my argument. The covert maintenance workers probably had easy access to the maintence floors to plant squibs on the outer columns.

If it was indeed an air vent, it still doesn't explain the pulverized material that came out with it. Look at the material being exerted. It's pulverized to dust, but the building has not been destroyed at that point yet.

 

[pomeroo]

How much explosives? You see them on specific levels every 30 floors or so. They could be explosives in the core of the building being blown out. I don't know the weight because i don't even know the type that was used.

This is not a key question. A key question is what are they? If they are not explosions, what are they? Please stop using diversion tactics, they do not work on me.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance...

Yes, of course appeals to scientific principles and real evidence don't work on you: you are a conspiracy liar.

Why do those silly demolition experts keep trying to explain to you ineducable dunces that the phenomenon we observe, a plume of air that gradually expands, is exactly the opposite of what we could expect to see in an explosion, a burst that quickly dissipates?

What do you ignorant liars know that the experts don't?

 

[stateofgrace]

Thousands of pounds of explosives. Tons of them were needed. I know.

Does anyone have proof that those focalized points of air are increasing in velocity and/or are too slow to be explosives? That is pretty important.

As for the floors falling inside of the building, it is a ridiculous notion. The buildings are falling at near free fall speed, it is impossible that one floor could fall that much faster than the rest of the building, and dislocate 20 other floors, and keep falling at that speed, and then all of a sudden eject a fissure of debris out the midpoint of the building.

You want me to believe that floors between the collapse front and the squibs to have fallen much faster than free fall allows, and defying conservation of momentum, and then for some reason after all those floors fell, they decided to break perfectly centered windows after 20 floors or so?

Please think before posting hypotheses.

 

[Hokulele]

If it was indeed an air vent, it still doesn't explain the pulverized material that came out with it. Look at the material being exerted. It's pulverized to dust, but the building has not been destroyed at that point yet.

Strike three.

The higher up "squib" is surely dust and loose rubble being ejected.

The lower "squibs" are smoke. There were fires on many floors due to some of the airplane fuel falling down the elevator shafts. Machinery from the elevators crashed down to the lobby and flames burnt a lot of people. It's reasonablew to assume there were small fires everywhere.

 

[WildCat]

Thousands of pounds of explosives. Tons of them were needed. I know.

How many tons? According to you, there needs to be enough explosives in the exact center of each floor to blast "most" of the mass of each floor outside the building footprint. Calculation please!

As for the floors falling inside of the building, it is a ridiculous notion.

Was the fireman lying?

it is impossible that one floor could fall that much faster than the rest of the building,

Has it ever occurreed to you that the floors didn't fall faster, they fell first?

and dislocate 20 other floors,

Who has ever claimed that happened? Or are you just lying making stuff up?

they decided to break perfectly centered windows after 20 floors or so?

Good point! Glad you finally noticed. Know what those floors were? What those "windows" were? I do, how come a serious 9/11 researcher such as yourself doesn't know?

Please think before posting hypotheses.