Horizontal Ejections and Squibs

papasmurf

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Hey I'm back everyone. Miss me? I got suspended for using indecent expressions. Shame on me! Anyways, let's try to get a respectable conversation going minus the insults from both sides.

Today we are going to talk about the focused explosions of pulverized building material/concrete that shoots out of the building 20-30 floors ahead of the collapse front. We have all seen these. In one clip, we can see two of these blasts coming out from the midpoints of building, on different sides of the building at the same level.

I would like to know why it is more believable that these explosive, focused blasts of pulverized material coming out at the mid-points of the building are more easily explained by these two quite ridiculous explanations, which i will argue against in advance, than the squib theory, which they perfectly resemble.

1. The first is given by popular mechanics:

"Like all office buildings, the WTC towers contained a huge volume of air. As they pancaked, all that air — along with the concrete and other debris pulverized by the force of the collapse — was ejected with enormous energy. "When you have a significant portion of a floor collapsing, it's going to shoot air and concrete dust out the window," NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder tells PM. Those clouds of dust may create the impression of a controlled demolition, Sunder adds, "but it is the floor pancaking that leads to that perception." "

Alright pancake people... We are talking about 20 to 30 floors below the collapse front. These floors are completely intact, so there is no reason why the crushing floors 200 feet above should exert a pressure that great on the floors that far below. No reason. I think we can all agree that this argument is a big load of crap.


2. The progressive collapse pressure wave theory.

Some people have professed that a pressure wave travelled down the tower, somehow ahead of the collapse front, that blew out air from windows 30 floors below.

There are so many holes in this theory, and i will address a few:

A. How does this pressure wave travel through the building in such a way that is powerful enough to blast out windows?

B. This theory has not been scientifically proven. There is no evidence that this wave can even occur given the structure of the building and the behavior of the collapse. I find it very difficult to believe that this piledriving action of the top section was able to increase the air pressure in one floor 20-30 floors to the point of blowing out windows on multiple sides of the building when there are numerous shafts and resevoirs for this air pressure to be contained.

C. Even if there was enough pressure from this wave to travel through the elevator shafts and out the windows of the building, it doesn't explain the pulverized building material. How was concrete able to be pulverized. You can see the enormous amount of dust and debris that gets blown out of the window along with the window itself.

So there you go. I'm looking for some reasons and explanations for what you believe to be true. Please spare me the personal attacks and insults. If you don't understand physics, please just wait for someone else to respond who does.
 
If you don't understand physics, please just wait for someone else to respond who does.
Oh, so you'll be offering up some math in this thread papasmurf?

Please calculate how much explosives would be necessary for the horizontal ejections.

Thanks in advance!
 
I’m unsure as to whether I wish to engage in conversation with someone named after a blue glans.
 
You did not see what was happening inside the building (did you?...I don't know, maybe you did). You saw how the outside of the building acted. How can you speak with any authority on what happened to the floors inside by watching a You-Tube video? What is your expertise anyway? Can you adequately (and by that I mean in an empirical, scientific way) counter the explanations given?
 
Oh, so you'll be offering up some math in this thread papasmurf?

Please calculate how much explosives would be necessary for the horizontal ejections.

Thanks in advance!

This is the key question smurf. Once you have those calculations, also ask yourself what kind of noise would these explosives produce?
 
Why didn't your explosives blow out all the windows (and spray glass) in the surrounding buildings? They should have if they were what you think they are. (Do research and learn about blast waves and the speed they travel)

Another quick question. Why do your "squibs" expand so slowly? Are you suggesting some strange low velocity high velocity (mind blowing isn't it) explosive?
 
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How much explosives? You see them on specific levels every 30 floors or so. They could be explosives in the core of the building being blown out. I don't know the weight because i don't even know the type that was used.

This is not a key question. A key question is what are they? If they are not explosions, what are they? Please stop using diversion tactics, they do not work on me.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance...
 
There were no blasts. Only gravity collapse, you need to do better and read more reports before trying to mischaracterize the WTC falling.

But nice try to back in thermite or explosives, they have been debunked, the truth movement died when the passengers on Flight 93 figured out 9/11 in minutes! Setting a standard 9/11 truth failed to meet in 6 years! Sad, dead movement the day of the event, proven dead by the event, and not one shred of evidence in the whole set of truth groups. Just false information, lies, and flawed conclusions.

Failed when you mentioned blasts. Based on physics and engineering, as learned while earning my engineering degree and masters in engineering. Kind of protects me from lies about 9/11. What is, or in your background that makes you predisposed to the ideas of the truth movement?

No explosives, you should have taken physics.
 
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There are so many holes in this theory, and i will address a few:

A. How does this pressure wave travel through the building in such a way that is powerful enough to blast out windows?

B. This theory has not been scientifically proven. There is no evidence that this wave can even occur given the structure of the building and the behavior of the collapse. I find it very difficult to believe that this piledriving action of the top section was able to increase the air pressure in one floor 20-30 floors to the point of blowing out windows on multiple sides of the building when there are numerous shafts and resevoirs for this air pressure to be contained.

C. Even if there was enough pressure from this wave to travel through the elevator shafts and out the windows of the building, it doesn't explain the pulverized building material. How was concrete able to be pulverized. You can see the enormous amount of dust and debris that gets blown out of the window along with the window itself.

So there you go.

These are no "holes", these are just questions of yours.
 
Incidentally, Papasmurf, what do you mean when you use the word “squib”?
 
How much explosives? You see them on specific levels every 30 floors or so.


Do you believe the (relative) small amount of (according to most truthers) squibs we see in all the videos is indicative of explosions designed to collapse the towers? Do you believe that (relative) small amount of explosives was sufficient to collapse a 110-story office building? Even in significantly smaller demolitions, a much greater amount of explosive flashes can be seen and a tremendous amount of "squibbing" can be seen as a result. Where were the flashes (at all) and significant squibbing in any of the buildings that day?
 
How much explosives? You see them on specific levels every 30 floors or so. They could be explosives in the core of the building being blown out.
Of course, the cores were still standing after the collapse for a few seconds, but I digress...

I don't know the weight because I don't even know the type that was used.
Just use TNT equivalent. A physics guru such as yourself will have no trouble, for example, calculating how much it would take to not only cut a 20,000 lb section of columns, but to also send it flying 200 feet horizontally.

Get to work tiger!
 
There were no blasts. Only gravity collapse, you need to do better and read more reports before trying to mischaracterize the WTC falling.

But nice try to back in thermite or explosives, they have been debunked, the truth movement died when the passengers on Flight 93 figured out 9/11 in minutes! Setting a standard 9/11 truth failed to meet in 6 years! Sad, dead movement the day of the event, proven dead by the event, and not one shred of evidence in the whole set of truth groups. Just false information, lies, and flawed conclusions.

Failed when you mentioned blasts. Based on physics and engineering, as learned while earning my engineering degree and masters in engineering. Kind of protects me from lies about 9/11. What is, or in your background that makes you predisposed to the ideas of the truth movement?

Just to make sure we're on the same page here...

You with your masters in engineering thinks it's better to call the focused horizontal ejections of building material 30 floors below the collapse front "gravitational collapses"....

Okey dokey...
 
Any ideas? Thanks in advance...

Air!!!!!! The building was full of it (thankfully for all the people that worked there).


Any explosive charge would move the air in thousands of feet per second not less than a hundred. You can't deny this no matter how much the "truth" movement tells you to. (please think for yourself)
 
How much explosives? You see them on specific levels every 30 floors or so. They could be explosives in the core of the building being blown out. I don't know the weight because i don't even know the type that was used.

This is not a key question. A key question is what are they? If they are not explosions, what are they? Please stop using diversion tactics, they do not work on me.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance...

Yes, it is indeed a key question. Once you do the calculations as to how much explosives it would require to eject the debris, then maybe you will realize the ridiculousness of your claims.
 
I'd love to see a "truther" show me a video of a high velocity (1000+ FPS) ejection from the towers. Good luck none exist (another nail in the "truther" coffin).
 
Just to make sure we're on the same page here...

You with your masters in engineering thinks it's better to call the focused horizontal ejections of building material 30 floors below the collapse front "gravitational collapses"....

Okey dokey...
The WTC was a gravity collapse after impacts and fire destroyed the strength of steel. Engineering and experience show me you have no expertise in physics, engineering or real knowledge on a broad range of topics needed to make sound judgments and form logical conclusions on 9/11. This is just from your mangling the questions and acting so knowledgeable on 9/11.

I assume you have read NIST, and several other reports on the fall of the WTC, and understand the chief structural engineer agrees with impact, fire and collapse as the mechanism that destroyed his structure. If you lack knowledge on these areas alone, you are lost and will not even get started on a discuss let alone your veiled attempt to blame others for the act of 19 terrorist who were responsively for the impacts at 1300 and 2093 pounds of TNT kinetic energy, 7 to 11 times greater than the design aircraft impact studied by Robertson, the chief engineer on the WTC.

Veiled in question form, an attempt to prove explosives, debunked on 9/11 and ever since with facts and evidence. Your lack of evidence is going to pour out in each post. Like this one.

Without a background you bring pure false information to form bad questions.

So with a masters, I can see your OP is indicative of your failure to understand 9/11. That is my plight, but other rational people only need a grade school education to do the same.
 
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