Homosexuality is a choice

[Blue Mountain]

Define "be straight".

Heterosexual, in that a person seeks out intimate emotional and sexual relationships with a person of the opposite sex.

Since you are arguing that homosexuals chose their homosexuality, it follows that all people at some point in their lives (probably at puberty) weigh the pros and cons of opposite-sex versus same-sex relationships and choose which one they prefer, much as a person decides upon a career path or a college.

So can you recall having to sit down and think it through for an hour, a day, or a week, and then actively choose to become a heterosexual?

 

[bikerdruid]

I am not trying to evade. I am trying to be objective. I still cannot understand what exactly you mean with "straight", since this word bear many meanings.

If you can provide me a definition to me understand what you mean, I will be glad to give you an accurate and objective answer.

straight.....heterosexual.
in the context of the thread, i thought it was obvious.

 

[Emet]

Why is so difficult to be? The sexual genes are just to letters:

X and Y.

Maybe is not to be...

Huh?

 

[keale]

straight.....heterosexual.
in the context of the thread, i thought it was obvious.

Oh its obvious that everyone reading knows what was being implied when you used the term "straight" but when your dancing around the subject you can miss that.

 

[SnakeTongue]

Heterosexual, in that a person seeks out intimate emotional and sexual relationships with a person of the opposite sex.

With a person of the opposite sex... Which sex? What you define by "sex"?

Since you are arguing that homosexuals chose their homosexuality (...)

Since when or where?

 

[bikerdruid]

With a person of the opposite sex... Which sex? What you define by "sex"?



Since when or where?

further evasion noted.
...dude...poop, or get off the pot...

 

[Emet]

further evasion noted.
...dude...poop, or get off the pot...

Perhaps he's confused about a lot of things...

 

[Blue Mountain]

With a person of the opposite sex... Which sex? What you define by "sex"?

You mentioned elsewhere that English is not your native language. If you don't mind me asking, what is your native language?

In English, the word "sex" as used in my question to you means gender. Thus, a person of the opposite sex means:

• If a person is a male (that is, a man), a person of the opposite sex is female (that is, a woman)
• If a person is a female (a woman), a person of the opposite sex is male (a man)

Since when or where?

From the How Far Have We Come With Homosexuality? thread:

being queer is not a choice; it is not an illness; it is just the way we are.

How do you know that it's just the way someone is born and not a choice?

science has proved that conclusively in the last 30 years.

No, science did not produced in the last 30 year any conclusive evidence which support your claim.
If I am wrong, feel free to provide some evidence.

The "your claim" part of that statement is in relation to this post from earlier in that thread:

don't need to.
being queer is not a choice; it is not an illness; it is just the way we are.
science has proved that conclusively in the last 30 years.

btw....science has also proved that the earth is not flat, and is not the centre of the universe.

Based on this exchange, I believe it is safe to conclude you support the position that homosexuality is a choice and not something a person is born with.

 

[keale]

With a person of the opposite sex... Which sex? What you define by "sex"?



Since when or where?

Hmmm im going to give that a 7 your hip hop dance was incredible but the break dancing portion left something to be desired and was crude to say the least.

 

[JFrankA]

You know, when people claim "homosexuality is a choice", I burst out laughing. They never ever ever, tell us at what point did they choose to be heterosexual.

So, c'mon, Snaketongue, get a backbone and tell us. What point did you say to yourself "I've weighed the choices, and I've decided that I am heterosexual."

To me, though, sexual attraction is so complex in humans that personally, (and I haven't seen any evidence of this, so it's just my own hypothesis), that all people are bi but more or less heterosexual or homosexual. Kind of like a scale. And even that scale can change for an individual depending on the people and the circumstances involved.

Circumstances completely change "homosexual" to "heterosexual". For example, let's take the "money shot" in porn. To be aroused by watching a man ejaculate sounds incredibly homoerotic. Now stick a woman in the scene, and BOOM - it's considered heterosexual. It the man was alone, (or with other men) it's considered homoerotic. But take the same circumstance, change the situation by one factor, and it's not homoerotic at all.

 

[Shrike]

You know, when people claim "homosexuality is a choice", I burst out laughing. They never ever ever, tell us at what point did they choose to be heterosexual.

Hang on a sec.
Above is mentioned by Mirrorglass: But just because something hasn't been proven doesn't automatically mean that the reverse is true.

Is it necessarily so that "choosing homosexuality" also means "choosing heterosexuality"? It could be that people who claim that "homosexuality is a choice" think that heterosexuality is the default position, so that homosexuals choose to diverge from the default.

 

[Mirrorglass]

Hang on a sec.
Above is mentioned by Mirrorglass: But just because something hasn't been proven doesn't automatically mean that the reverse is true.

Is it necessarily so that "choosing homosexuality" also means "choosing heterosexuality"? It could be that people who claim that "homosexuality is a choice" think that heterosexuality is the default position, so that homosexuals choose to diverge from the default.

Well, logically, if I can choose to either be homosexual or not be homosexual, with heterosexuality being the default position, then I must also make a choice if I am to stay heterosexual.

But I suppose it could be argued that if you never know you have a choice, then you won't have chosen to stay heterosexual. That could be what those people mean, although it's still pretty flimsy logic.

 

[Shrike]

Well, logically, if I can choose to either be homosexual or not be homosexual, with heterosexuality being the default position, then I must also make a choice if I am to stay heterosexual.

But I suppose it could be argued that if you never know you have a choice, then you won't have chosen to stay heterosexual. That could be what those people mean, although it's still pretty flimsy logic.

True.
Pretty flimsy logic is correct though.

 

[EGarrett]

why do some folks still think that being gay or lesbian is a choice?

most science shows that gays and lesbians realize they are this way early on in life, sometimes even before puberty.

and yet, lots of folks like to talk about it...as if its a choice.

a choice, that can be changed. ahhhh!!!!!!!!!!

now I get it.

If it were a choice, then we wouldn't see all these pastors preaching against homosexuality get caught with gay prostitutes, but if it were genetic, we wouldn't see straight men having gay sex in prison. The truth, as best as I can tell, is that it's not a choice, it's not genetic, it's a conditioned preference. Like the way a farm boy would grow up to be a man who is comfortable working outdoors. Is working outdoors in his genes? No. It's the way he was brought up. Did he CHOOSE to prefer working outdoors? No. It just happens to be the way he was brought up.

Now, the relevant issue, changing this conditioned preference. Could you do it? Maybe, but since you're usually trying to change something that was formed during years and years of the impressionable time of life, it sure as hell won't be easy. And the real question, SHOULD you do it, and should you try to make people miserable for their preference? Since we have the right to the pursuit of happiness in this country, the answer is no.

The problem that a "closeted" gay preacher that Ted Haggard had is not that he was gay or bisexual, he enjoyed being with other men. It was something that was pleasurable. The problem was his religious programming and a segment of society that was saying that his private behavior, which wasn't harming anyone, was wrong. That is the source of his and many other gay people's misery.

Oh, and last thing: you don't have to be gay to support gay rights. There are many people who I would not want to watch have sex, most people actually, but I sure as heck support their right to do so. Just like there are many sexual interests people have that I wouldn't care to see in practice, but I support as long as they aren't harming others. That means that being put off by gay sex does not make you a bigot if you're a straight man. It just means you have a different personal preference but can still support their rights. Likewise, that means that the gay guys who go around with penis lollipops or in pants with the ass-missing should stop. It's tasteless and off-putting, and it's not helping anything.

 

[SnakeTongue]

In English, the word "sex" as used in my question to you means gender. Thus, a person of the opposite sex means:

• If a person is a male (that is, a man), a person of the opposite sex is female (that is, a woman)
• If a person is a female (a woman), a person of the opposite sex is male (a man)

So we can agree that heterosexuality is defined as oposite-gender sexual conduct. By extension, an heterosexual is defined as anyone who engages or desires to engage in such conduct:

- A biological male who desire to engage in sexual conduct with a biological female is heterosexual.

- A biological male who desire to engage in sexual conduct with a biological male is homosexual.

From this, we can define:

1. To recognize the sexual conduct of two individuals, it is necessary identify the biological gender of such individuals.

2. To observe the sexual conduct between two or more individuals, it is necessary that two or more individuals of any gender engage in a sexual intercourse.

Note: The gender of a person is unchangedable (1), but the sexual conduct is changedable (2).

e.g. I born male (1) and I engange in a sexual conduct with a person who show off the traits of the female gender (2).

e.g. I born male (1) and I engange in a sexual conduct with a person who show off the traits of the male gender (2).

3. Definition of choose:

transitive verb
1.a : to select freely and after consideration <choose a career>
1.b : to decide on especially by vote : elect <chose her as captain>
2.a : to have a preference for <choose one car over another>
2.b : decide <chose to go by train>

Hypothetical situation:

A adult male (1) decide (3) have sexual conduct (2) with another adult female.

The adult male (1) after consideration decide (3) to visit the local pub during the evening.

Once inside the pub, the adult male (1) observe that are few adult females (1) seating in different tables.

After consideration, the adult male (1) freely select one table and approach the selected table (3).

Close to the table, the adult male (1) introduce himself (3) to the adult female (1).

The adult male (1) is welcome in the table (3) by the adult female (1).

After consideration, the adult male (1) and one of the adult females (1) decide (3) engage in a sexual conduct (2) with each other.

Either adult male and female (1) decide walk out the pub (3) to the adult male (1) house.

Once in the adult male (1) house, after consideration, the adult female (1) freely decide to offer (3) the adult male (1) touch her clitoris with his tongue (2).

The adult male (1), after consideration, freely deny the female offer (3) and ask her permission to insert his penis in her vagina (2).

The adult female (1), after consideration, freely allow (3) the adult male (1) penetrate her vagina with his penis (2).

Conclusions:

False assumption:

Are you heterosexual? When did you choose to be so, if that is the case?

being

1. the quality or state of having existence
2. the qualities that constitute an existent thing : essence; especially : personality
3. a living thing; especially : person

Sexual conduct is an action (heterosexual intercourse) and not a being (biologic gender).

Hence, sexual conduct do not change the biological male or female being, but the biological being change the sexual conduct.

So I did not choose to be a male or a female, but I did choose how, when and where to engage in a sexual intercourse.

True assumption:

Are you a adult male which enjoy engage in sexual intercourse with an adult female? When did you choose to do so, if that is the case?

Yes, I am an adult male which enjoy engage in sexual intercourse with a adult female. After consideration, I freely decide to do with an adult female who freely decide to do with me.

From the How Far Have We Come With Homosexuality? thread:

Please, let's keep the subject of the another thread in the another thread.

You mentioned elsewhere that English is not your native language. If you don't mind me asking, what is your native language?

It is Brazilian Portuguese with regional influences from the south and central-west Brazilian states.

 

[SnakeTongue]

(...) The truth, as best as I can tell, is that it's not a choice, it's not genetic, it's a conditioned preference. (...)

Would you explain how a "conditioned preference" do not relate to "choice"?

Definition of PREFERENCE
1
a : the act of preferring : the state of being preferred
b : the power or opportunity of choosing
2
: one that is preferred
3
: the act, fact, or principle of giving advantages to some over others
4
: priority in the right to demand and receive satisfaction of an obligation
5
: orientation <sexual preference>

 

[bikerdruid]

Would you explain how a "conditioned preference" do not relate to "choice"?

...enough dancing around, snaketongue....answer the damn question...
When did you decide to be heterosexual?

 

[Cainkane1]

The biggest gay basher I ever knew in my life was a male prostitute as a teenage boy. He was and is to this day a doper and alcoholic who has destroyed every relationship he's ever been in. Theres not a single person who he has had a relationship with that didn't eventually regret it.

I think he's a bi man in denial. I hope I never run into him again.

 

[keale]

With a person of the opposite sex... Which sex? What you define by "sex"?



Since when or where?

Hmmm im going to give that a 7 your hip hop dance was incredible but the break dancing portion left something to be desired and was crude to say the least.

 

[I Am The Scum]

Snaketongue, nobody is arguing that engaging in sexual behavior is never a choice. They are arguing, however, that most adults have within them a certain desire for one gender and not the other, and that these desires are not chosen.

I'm going to phrase this as clearly as I possibly can: You have described yourself as "an adult male which enjoy engage in sexual intercourse with a adult female." Why do you enjoy intercourse with females? Is this something you have chosen to desire, or is it not? If it is, then at what age did you choose to desire this? Is it possible for you to desire sex with men?

Do you believe that homosexual men have chosen to desire relations with other men? If you believe they have chosen this, what makes you believe that is the case?