"Homeopathy proves effective for cat and dog conditions"

[Mojo]

Just spotted this:

Owners can now be confident homeopathic medicines can be effective for common canine and feline conditions in many animals, following a recently published clinical study.

The only one I could see on the BAHVS site they cite for "further information" is "a prospective, research-targeted, pilot study" from 2007 (I think we've discussed it here before, but I can't find the thread) and the numbers don't match up, so I think they must be referring to this: Mathie RT, Baitson ES, Hansen L, Elliott MF, Hoare J. Homeopathic prescribing for chronic conditions in feline and canine veterinary practice. Homeopathy. 2010 Oct;99(4):243-8.

CONCLUSIONS: A programme of controlled research in veterinary homeopathy for these feline and canine conditions is clearly indicated.

Paging Rolfe, BSM, and Yuri!

 

[Rolfe]

Rolfe.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

Homeopathy for renal failure?!?!

 

[Lucian]

Homeopathy for renal failure?!?!

Well, one of the treatments for kidney disease is subcutaneous fluids--that's kind of like water, and the fluids don't contain any molecules of magic homeopathic treatments, so.......

 

[blauney]

It's interesting that the clinical outcome of the was owner-assessed. I wonder what the dogs and cats would have said about the improvement of their conditions.

Mojo, I think you are right about which study was the subject of the recent press releases. Take a look at the Web site for the Faculty of Homeopathy. They include a December 3, 2010 press release referring to the same article you found. I would include the link, but I am new to the forum and am not allowed to post URLs.

 

[RationalVetMed]

Just spotted this:

The only one I could see on the BAHVS site they cite for "further information" is "a prospective, research-targeted, pilot study" from 2007 (I think we've discussed it here before

They've been threatening to get this published for ages now and in the meantime have published all sorts of little supplementary papes about the techniques they used, preliminary findings etc presumably to improve the 'yield' from this piece of nonsense.

I once described these "owner assessment" trials as the research equivalent of the head waiter coming up to you in the middle of the meal and asking you if you are enjoying it; not surprisingly most people will answer yes. There are so many reasons why this sort of study is garbage but you can mention them until you are blue in the face and the homs will still persist in trotting them out as if they are incontravertible evidence that homeopathy works.

Vet homs have been banging on about the recent human patient outcome survey for a long time now, now they've got a little one about animals all of their very own with which to cloud the issue - sickening and highly cynical.

Oh, and what Rolfe said!

Yuri

 

[Lolly]

Well, my cat said it doesn't work.

 

[arthwollipot]

The stupid, it burns!

I don't suppose anyone over at the BAHVS has heard of experimenter bias?

 

[Mojo]

Take a look at the Web site for the Faculty of Homeopathy. They include a December 3, 2010 press release referring to the same article you found. I would include the link, but I am new to the forum and am not allowed to post URLs.

The Faculty's press release was a little more cautious in its interpretation.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Does anyone know the numbers of Hyperthyroid cats that they treated?

 

[sadhatter]

This crap for pets kills me. Recently my mother purchased some homeopathic mouthwash for 75 dollars a bottle, and has been going on about the wonders it is doing for the dogs teeth ( it was sold under the premise that it would remove the need for teeth cleaning.).

Me, i have noticed a direct increase in how yellow and nasty the dog's mouth/teeth have became. It is a wonder that simply due to belief in the product one can ignore it's obvious failure.

 

[Mojo]

They've been threatening to get this published for ages now and in the meantime have published all sorts of little supplementary papes about the techniques they used, preliminary findings etc presumably to improve the 'yield' from this piece of nonsense.

See, for example:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74166
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2631043#post2631043
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172530

 

[RationalVetMed]

Does anyone know the numbers of Hyperthyroid cats that they treated?

Why, do you want to ask them out on a date or something?



Yuri

 

[Rolfe]

As far as I recall, Mark Evans says that homoeopathy doesn't actually change the T₄ concentrations of the hyperthyroid cats, it just makes them "better".

Remember that ghastly thread on H'pathy Forums where we were begging that woman with the grossly thyrotoxic cat to get it proper treatment, and some loon was posting package insert data to show that methimazole was deadly poison?

Rolfe.

 

[Lolly]

That's what my cat Tiger has. Theoretically, these homeopathic things could be tested out on him, but I wouldn't take my cat off the medication that's fixed him up to do it. Who would deprive their pet of medicine that they need and that works? He went all skinny before his diagnosis and now he's regained some weight and looks really good. I wouldn't let him go back to being all skinny just to test out some alternative medication when the medication he's got is effective. What's the point? Even if this water concoction could be effective (yeh, right) why bother with it when there's already medication that's effective? I can understand why people look for these quack remedies where they have something that isn't effectively treated by available medication, but where it is effectively treated, why bother?

 

[AnnoyingPony]

It doesn't matter what this paper says because every other fair scientific study on homeopathy will come to the opposite conclusion: homeopathy is woo.

The worst that happens is that we get a rash of pet deaths from easily preventable diseases because owners don't want to vaccinate their pets.

 

[Mojo]

It doesn't matter what this paper says because every other fair scientific study on homeopathy will come to the opposite conclusion...

"Customer satisfaction surveys" is too long to use as a tag.

 

[Deetee]

Does anyone know the numbers of Hyperthyroid cats that they treated?

3?
6?
9?
12?
etc


I note the conclusion says:

"A programme of controlled research in veterinary homeopathy for these feline and canine conditions is clearly indicated."

Not "homeopathy works".
If they have committed themselves in print to saying that a controlled trial is needed, that means they cannot draw firm conclusions on the basis of the present study, something else that can be pointed out to anyone using this trial as "proof" homeopathy works.

ETA - I see it was 21 cats, with 18 followed up.
Is it routine to do periodic blood tests for T4/TSH on treated cats with hyperthyroidism?

 

[Rolfe]

T₄, yes. We don't find any need to monitor TSH.

As I said, I believe Mark Evans has said informally that homoeopathy doesn't have any effect on the objectively measured T₄ concentrations of hyperthyroid cats - it just makes them "better". I think it's another customer satisfaction survey, informal. Just ask the owners, and do you think the cat might be a little better now? Count the ones that say yes, and ignore the ones that say no. Or ask people on a number of occasions, and you're pretty certain to get at least one"yes" from most people who have chosen to try homoeopathic treatment.

Rolfe.

 

[Lolly]

They can't be "better" if they've still got the wrong amount of T4 though, can they, regardless of how the owner "feels"? They are still malfunctioning and therefore not "better".