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Homeopathy and Polar Molecule Memory?

Olaf/QII

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Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
440
I have uncovered at least a couple dozen DBPC studies that support homeopathy and about six that don't support it. The person in this forum states that water memory is disproven. I think that the evidence for water memory has been given new life by a few recent studies.

http://www.scienceforums.com/showthread.php?t=2091&page=2


Below is an article from New Scientist that makes a strong case for water memory.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1532

http://www.doctorshealthsupply.com/homeopath/homeopathic_newsletter.htm

"The history of the solution is important. The more dilute it starts, the larger the aggregates," says Geckeler. Also, it only worked in polar solvents like water, in which one end of the molecule has a pronounced positive charge while the other end is negative.




And the experiments performed by a Swiss chemist using thermoluminescence on lithium and sodium solutions diluted far beyond avogrado's number is something that gives very strong evidence of something peculiar going on with respect to water memory.

http://www.vhan.nl/documents/Rey.thermoluminescence.pdf

http://www.raydionics.com/water.html

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3817

Yet a paper is about to be published in the reputable journal Physica A claiming to show that even though they should be identical, the structure of hydrogen bonds in pure water is very different from that in homeopathic dilutions of salt solutions. Could it be time to take the "memory" of water seriously?

The paper's author, Swiss chemist Louis Rey, is using thermoluminescence to study the structure of solids. The technique involves bathing a chilled sample with radiation. When the sample is warmed up, the stored energy is released as light in a pattern that reflects the atomic structure of the sample.




www.skepp.be:8080/skepp/artikels/alternatieve_behandelingen/ECH_report_research112004-1.pdf+ECH+GENERAL+ASSEMBLY+%E2%80%93+XVIII+Symposium+of+GIRI&hl=en]Can this really be reproduced as easily as they say it can?[/URL]



A/ The experimental model that is cheapest, most reproducible and also the most easilyresearched is probably the “acetylcholine-induced contraction of the rat ileum”. It is a well-recognized scientific model (Chang FY, Lee SD, et al. Rat gastrointestinal motor responsesmediated via activation of neurokinin receptors. J.Gastroenterol Hepatol 1999; 14: 39-45).This model has been devised for the verification of very high dilutions of Belladonna by A.Cristea, a Romanian researcher; results have already been published (Bastide M (ed). Signalsand Images. Kluwer Academic Publishers 1997: 161-170).

http://www.skepp.be:8080/skepp/artikels/alternatieve_behandelingen/ECH_report_research112004-1.pdf


Professor Wolfgang Süß, Institute of Pharmacy at the University of Leipzig, has used this model to test the transfer of the activity of a homeopathic remedy (in this case Atropinumsulphuricum D60) from the original liquid form to the homeopathic tablet. As usual, severalcontrols were performed. Alpha-lactose monohydrate tablets impregnated with the highlydiluted Atropinum had systematically efficacy, on the contrary with anhydrous alpha-lactose tablets no effect can be ascertained. Thus, the quality of homeopathic tablets can be testedbefore daily use in pharmacy (constant reproducibility). This very simple model therefore has the potential to remove doubts about the activity of very highly diluted homeopathic remedies(Schmidt F, Süß WG, Nieber K. In-vitro Testung von homöopathischen Verdünnungen. Biol.Med./Heft 1/February 2004;32-37).
 
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4305

The researchers took groups of five mice either with or without arsenic poisoning and drop fed them Arsenicum Album, distilled water, or alcohol that had been through the same preparation procedure as the homeopathic antidote.

Two different dilutions of the homeopathic remedy cut the levels of two liver enzymes - ALT and AST - which are indicators of liver toxicity and are boosted by arsenic poisoning. This positive effect occurred within 72 hours and liver lasted for up to 30 days, they report in their journal paper. Distilled water had no effect on either enzyme. And alcohol actually enhanced the activity of AST.




Very interesting paper

This paper contains several studies that merit a closer look.
 
"nerr" is suddenly "olaf/QII". Wow, that was quick.

Now go away, Xanta.

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
"nerr" is suddenly "olaf/QII". Wow, that was quick.

Now go away, Xanta.

Rolfe.
Darat (or whomever changed the nick) should just keep slashing it. It'd be amusing to see the complete list of sockpuppets a homeopath can gather.
 
Excuse me but what just happened here? Who took over my account and changed my name?

Are you people that fearful of a few posts that may run counter to your beliefs? Is harrassment the rule around here? Are all open-minded people who come here persecuted for asking questions? Is that the way science works -- stifling those who may have information that expands existing knowledge?
 
Anybody Have Good Marinade Recipes?

We're going to have some neighbors over for Memorial Day and I'm going to fire up the grill. Probably put some flank steaks on it. As you surely know, flank steak can be a little tough, but responds wonderfully to marinade.

Now here's the problem: Our neighbor has a serious gluten intolerance problem, so we need a marinade that doesn't use soy sauce. He also can't digest white vinegar, but wine vinegar is okay for some reason.

So, who's got a good recipe? Let's share!
 
Donks said:
Darat (or whomever changed the nick) should just keep slashing it. It'd be amusing to see the complete list of sockpuppets a homeopath can gather.
If you want the full set that I'm aware of, it's Xanta/Gold/Olaf/QII/Yaw/nerr.

Xanta is only on the homoeopathy boards. Gold was her first incarnation here, which she just walked away from. Never censured or banned that I know of. Olaf got banned after QII was found to be a sock of Olaf, and at the same time QII was changed to Olaf/QII. That identity was apparently a casualty of one of the forum crashes, and she never came back to re-register that identity with a valid password. However, she did come back as Yaw for a bit, and as far as I remember she also walked away from that without being banned or "slashed".

The antics of people without a tenable argment are pretty entertaining sometimes.

Rolfe.

PS. The other much-slashed identity is Naturalhealth/Homeoskeptic/Corallinus/Sarah-I.
 
Olaf/QII said:
Excuse me but what just happened here? Who took over my account and changed my name?

Are you people that fearful of a few posts that may run counter to your beliefs? Is harrassment the rule around here? Are all open-minded people who come here persecuted for asking questions? Is that the way science works -- stifling those who may have information that expands existing knowledge?
Are you saying that you're not Xanta/Olaf/QII/etc? Would you mind if the mods post evidence that you are, which may include your IP address?
 
Donks said:
Are you saying that you're not Xanta/Olaf/QII/etc? Would you mind if the mods post evidence that you are, which may include your IP address?

I am none of the above and they can post whatever evidence they want to prove it.

meanwhile, I have no password to re-log in on. Once I log out I can not get back in effectively shutting me out.

Give me a password or restore my original name of nerr.

Apparently this is the way you treat people who post science that runs counter to the beliefs held at this forum. Censorship is not the answer.
 
Re: Anybody Have Good Marinade Recipes?

BPSCG said:
We're going to have some neighbors over for Memorial Day and I'm going to fire up the grill. Probably put some flank steaks on it. As you surely know, flank steak can be a little tough, but responds wonderfully to marinade.

Now here's the problem: Our neighbor has a serious gluten intolerance problem, so we need a marinade that doesn't use soy sauce. He also can't digest white vinegar, but wine vinegar is okay for some reason.

So, who's got a good recipe? Let's share!
Sorry, I don't have a recipe to share. But I'll share something else. I'm currently tagging an ***load of mp3s that made their way into my HD when my brother got a hold of it. Among them is a classical piece called "The Typewriter." I'm sure you've heard it before, I'd heard it before in a TV show or movie, or womewhere like that. It features an old typewriter, with the bell and all. Fun to listen to.
 
Re: Anybody Have Good Marinade Recipes?

BPSCG said:
We're going to have some neighbors over for Memorial Day and I'm going to fire up the grill. Probably put some flank steaks on it. As you surely know, flank steak can be a little tough, but responds wonderfully to marinade.

Now here's the problem: Our neighbor has a serious gluten intolerance problem, so we need a marinade that doesn't use soy sauce. He also can't digest white vinegar, but wine vinegar is okay for some reason.

So, who's got a good recipe? Let's share!

Hi BPSCG! We don't really know each other yet, but I love a good flank steak. I've been doing a marinade of olive oil Worcestershire and lime juice and then I rub the steak with McCormick's Grill Mates Montreal Steak Seasoning and fresh garlic. Let it sit for about two hours, turning once. Yummy.

Edited to add that the French's brand is gluten free as are many brands found in health food stores.
 
Olaf/QII said:
I am none of the above and they can post whatever evidence they want to prove it.
Wonderful. I'd expect the mods to come around shortly and provide the evidence, or if they made a mistake revert their decision.
 
Olaf/QII said:
I am none of the above and they can post whatever evidence they want to prove it.

meanwhile, I have no password to re-log in on. Once I log out I can not get back in effectively shutting me out.

Give me a password or restore my original name of nerr.

Apparently this is the way you treat people who post science that runs counter to the beliefs held at this forum. Censorship is not the answer.

Nevermind. It seems that my password has been left untouched.

However, I find it despicable that I was attacked for posting science that appears in some of the world's most respected journals such as Physica A.

Ask yourselves -- what are you afraid of. Why do you harrass people who are open minded about science. Why are you so fearful of science that may expand our current understanding of the world.
 
Re: Re: Anybody Have Good Marinade Recipes?

Perpetual Notion said:
Hi BPSCG! We don't really know each other yet, but I love a good flank steak. I've been doing a marinade of olive oil Worcestershire and lime juice and then I rub the steak with McCormick's Grill Mates Montreal Steak Seasoning and fresh garlic. Let it sit for about two hours, turning once. Yummy.
Do you think someone with IBD could eat that?

I wonder what the weather is like on Lake Erie just now. Spring is so nice when you live on an island, isn't it? All that health-giving shaken-up water all around! :D

Rolfe.
 
Olaf/QII said:
I have uncovered at least a couple dozen DBPC studies that support homeopathy and about six that don't support it. The person in this forum states that water memory is disproven. I think that the evidence for water memory has been given new life by a few recent studies.

http://www.scienceforums.com/showthread.php?t=2091&page=2


Below is an article from New Scientist that makes a strong case for water memory.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1532

http://www.doctorshealthsupply.com/homeopath/homeopathic_newsletter.htm

"The history of the solution is important. The more dilute it starts, the larger the aggregates," says Geckeler. Also, it only worked in polar solvents like water, in which one end of the molecule has a pronounced positive charge while the other end is negative.



You know some tried to repeat this study. Here are the results:

Lack of evidence of dilution history-dependence upon solute aggregation in water. A nuclear magnetic resonance determination of self-diffusion coefficients

Fernando Hallwass , M. Engelsberg and A. M. Simas

This study reported that:

NMR-PFG (pulsed field gradient) diffusion coefficient measurements of aqueous solutions of sodium chloride, sodium azide, 18C6 crown ether, -cyclodextrin and of a mixture of sodium azide and 18C6 crown ether, did not reveal any solution history-dependence, indicating that the unexpected solute aggregation upon dilution, reported by Samal and Geckeler (Chem. Commun., 2001, 2224), is inconsistent with these as well as other experimental results.

Cheakmate
 
Oh, Geni. You disappoint me!

caramelkit.jpg


Rolfe. :c1:
 

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