Homeopathic surgery???

[bug_girl]

I searched, but amazingly there isn't a thread about this yet!

The Arizona Republic Jul. 17, 2007 05:47 PM

“A homeopathic doctor was suspended Tuesday for his role in a botched liposuction operation earlier this month that resulted in the death of the patient… Page performed the liposuction procedure on July 3 at the Anthem office of Dr. Peter J. Normann, whose practice was restricted by the state in May after two other liposuction patients suffered cardiac arrest on the operating table and died.”

I’m not sure which is worse–that some idiot homeopath thought he was a surgeon, or that it turns out it’s actually legal in Arizona for homeopaths to perform “minor surgery”! (You can get a homeopathic ‘degree’ entirely by distance learning, BTW.)

Read Respectful Insolence’s view (as a practicing, MD, surgeon) of this:

“Yes, I said it. Homeopathy is quackery. Period. I’m tired of being politically correct and dancing around it with words like “dubious” or “unproven.”"

(loosely paraphrased from my blog.)

 

[bug_girl]

HA! apparently the doc also can't post on the forum. Minor amusement due to the glossary popups for "suspended"

Oh, and don't read the comments on the Arizona article, if you have blood pressure issues.

 

[JoeEllison]

By the general stupidity of homeopathic belief, you'd think that if you cut someone slightly it would be equivalent to an entire surgery... and if you pricked someone's finger with a needle, their spleen would fall out.

 

[bug_girl]

egad, it keeps getting worse:

From 2005, about the Homeopathic Licensing Board:

“A California doctor spent five years in prison for performing thousands of unnecessary eye surgeries before being allowed to practice homeopathic medicine in Arizona.

A New Mexico doctor illegally borrowed hundreds of thousands of dollars from more than 100 of his own patients before becoming a homeopathic physician in metropolitan Phoenix, a crime that recently resulted in felony convictions.

Over the past five years, the Arizona Board of Homeopathic Medical Examiners has licensed four doctors who have been convicted of felonies in other states and six others who have lost their licenses or been disciplined elsewhere.”

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/1009homeopathic09.html

 

[joobz]

shouldn't homeopathic surgery involve being dosed in water that was in contact with scalpels, forceps, sutures,....

 

[Eos of the Eons]

If you're too stupid to become a real doctor, but still want to look like one, become a homeopath and lie to patients (duh, yeah, I'm a DOCTOR) so that they will give you money for real procedures. You end up killing them, but who knew how hard it could be to be a real MD?

Under state law, homeopaths may do "minor surgery," and Dr. Bruce Shelton, president of the Arizona Homeopathic and Integrative Medical Association and former president of the Homeopathic Board, said whether liposuction can be considered minor surgery "is a huge gray area."

WTF, what minor surgery could an idiot do that believes in magic water and has no idea what a lipocyte is?? WTF??

What idiots in Arizona let homeopaths do anything except hand out their sugar pills??
Seriously, just as we are figuring out cancer cures... we also let homeopaths DO MINOR SURGERIES and can't tell if liposuction is JUST a minor surgery?


Seriously, I think MDs deserve a better title than "doctor" if a homeopath can call himself/herself a "doctor".

 

[kellyb]

shouldn't homeopathic surgery involve being dosed in water that was in contact with scalpels, forceps, sutures,....

Or homeopathic liposuction dribbling water that's one part per billion Cheetos on your belly?

Seems like just walking through a donut factory should do the trick, too...

(I feel bad making jokes when someone died, but I can't help myself...)

 

[joobz]

Or homeopathic liposuction dribbling water that's one part per billion Cheetos on your belly?

Seems like just walking through a donut factory should do the trick, too...

(I feel bad making jokes when someone died, but I can't help myself...)

Don't feel bad. Indignant rage on a web forum isn't going to help the deceased any either.

most people don't know what homeopathic is and view it as a viable form of medicine. We need to spread more insults and derision. The only way we can get people to realize the shear foolishness of the practice is by making them the big joke that they are.

 

[autumn1971]

Every "practitioner" of homeopathic "medicine" should be required to post a skull and crossbones in their windows. Perhaps, just perhaps, this would prevent the morons of America (easily 99%, if you doubt this number, work behind a counter for a year) from partaking in their idiocy. Probably, though, a skull and crossbones in the window would simply cause our fat and happy kids to flock to the pirate store.

At least, given the utter uselessness of homeopothy, non of the fat, idiotic, unthinking (a metaphor, perhaps?) children would die.

 

[wollery]

Hang on a second!

I thought the whole point of homeopathy was that you could cure absolutely anything with Magic Water^TM. So why the heck do they need to perform surgery? Isn't that evil allopathic medicine?

 

[Zep]

No no no no no!

"Homeopathy" is a magic word, that has no weight of itself, but you can append it to any medical description and in doing so avoid having to explain how it works, guarantee results, or be responsible for the outcome, but still gouge the poor old patient mercilessly.

 

[JJM]

{snip} most people don't know what homeopathic is and view it as a viable form of medicine. We need to spread more insults and derision. The only way we can get people to realize the shear foolishness of the practice is by making them the big joke that they are.

Arizona licenses these quacks, licensing presents many problems. For one thing, it confers an inappropriate air of legitimacy on the field. Another problem is it leaves the monkeys in charge of the zoo. Additionally, it causes confusion when they are all allowed to present themselves as “doctors.” It is possible that the homeopath doing surgery was introduced to his victim as Dr. Page.

AZ also licenses "naturopaths" and confers hospital privileges (PDF)
http://www.nat-med.com/etiportaldata/natmedonline/pdfs/Heartburn%20and%20GERD.pdf

See “A Close Look At Naturopathy”
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Naturopathy/naturopathy.html
At http://www.naturowatch.org/

I would be terrified to awaken in a hospital to find the attending was a fake.

Edited to add:
More on legalized quackery in Arizona
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/07/more_on_legalized_quackery_in_arizona.php

 

[Zep]

How quickly can a class action suit be brought against the government and state of Arizona for willful abuse of its citizens in its medical system because it allowed the licensing of quacks in its hospitals? Claims of damages and restitution could run into many billions of dollars if they are not careful!

And I wonder if any newspapers would like to hear about this! And if there's another potential Erin Brockovich in the wings...

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

I wouldn't let a homeopathic "doctor" remove a small splinter from my finger with a tweezers.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

How quickly can a class action suit be brought against the government and state of Arizona for willful abuse of its citizens in its medical system because it allowed the licensing of quacks in its hospitals? Claims of damages and restitution could run into many billions of dollars if they are not careful!

And I wonder if any newspapers would like to hear about this! And if there's another potential Erin Brockovich in the wings...

NO freaking kidding. What IDIOT in the Arizona government is letting the homeopaths set up like MDs? They have boards and everything, just like MDs. Arizona should be labelled "MORONIC" on the map. I will never refer to Arizona as "Arizona" again. From hereonwith, you know what the state of MORONIC is. The government of MORONIC is thusly MORONS.

Stay clear of MORONIC if you need any medical care or procedure, it's run by MORONS.

That's right. Homeopaths can use any form of chelation therapy they desire, without worrying about anything like...oh, that pesky lack of scientific evidence that it has any therapeutic effect for cardiovascular disease, autism, or any of the other conditions blamed on "heavy metal toxicity."
It's one thing for homeopaths to be using treatments that are so dilute that they are nothing more than water; i.e., an elaborate placebo. Doesn't it warm the cockles of your heart to know that quackery is legal in Arizona? But it's even better than that, if you're a quack. According to Section R4-38-115, you can claim the title of "doctor." Really. True, you do have to qualify it somewhat, but not in such a way that would prevent you from legally calling yourself "doctor":

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/07/more_on_legalized_quackery_in_arizona.php

Chelation removes much needed things, like calcium, to help run/regulate the running of other much needed things, like the heart.

People die when Morons let idiots like homeopaths do serious procedures like chelation and liposuction.

In MORONIC, homeopaths can be given permits to dispense controlled substances:

WTF? Did hell freeze over, or are the morons of MORONIC really that STUPID?

I would wonder if the federal government should step in and do something, but I've heard bad things about the US federal government too.

I can only hope that Canadian Quacks leave my country for the very green pastures of the US, and I can only hope that Canada starts to wake up before more people die here too.

Or, all the patients will die, leaving families right pissed off enough to finally demand quality care by people trained in evidence based medicine. One day, maybe.