Homeless Solution

[Guest]

Dear neutrino_cannon,

While not atheist there are plenty of secular institutions and organizations that have done significant good to the world, little things like say, eradicating smallpox and stopping WW3. (WHO and UN respectivly)

I understand that there are many secular organizations that do such things. Are there any specifically atheist organizations? To me, secular is not the opposite of theist, atheist is.

Sincerely,

S. H.

 

[neutrino_cannon]

http://www.atheists.org/nj/html/body_atheist_charities.html



A quick googling turned up this. While not as large or flashy as the catholic church, it would appear that they do exist.

 

[Graham]

Dear neutrino_cannon,



I understand that there are many secular organizations that do such things. Are there any specifically atheist organizations? To me, secular is not the opposite of theist, atheist is.

Sincerely,

S. H.

You're reminding me of someone, to be frank . . .

If I was an atheist and I was starting an orgainistaion, I wouldn't make it an atheist orgainisation. I'd make it an orgainisation to feed the homeless or play chess or whatever. My atheism would have nothing to do with it. It's only religious orgainistaions that feel the need to put bible versses on their aid packages.

Graham

 

[Kimpatsu]

You're reminding me of someone, to be frank . . .
If I was an atheist and I was starting an orgainistaion, I wouldn't make it an atheist orgainisation. I'd make it an orgainisation to feed the homeless or play chess or whatever. My atheism would have nothing to do with it. It's only religious orgainistaions that feel the need to put bible versses on their aid packages.

Well said, Graham.

 

[A_Feeble_Mind]

Dear neutrino_cannon,



I understand that there are many secular organizations that do such things. Are there any specifically atheist organizations? To me, secular is not the opposite of theist, atheist is.

Sincerely,

S. H.

To specifically create an organization to help based on atheism would be like creating a group that helps the poor, but is also comprised only of people who don't believe in astrology. It is unnecessary and silly to limit who might join if you are all working for a common goal.

 

[Guest]

Dear Graham,

If I was an atheist and I was starting an orgainistaion, I wouldn't make it an atheist orgainisation.

Well, that is great, and I'd probably do the same, but the facts are that there are many atheist organizations out there.

It's only religious orgainistaions that feel the need to put bible versses on their aid packages.

There are many that don't.

Personally, I'd rather get help from a theist organization and get some verses that I'm not interested in, than get no help from atheist organizations.

Also, 'bible verses' is relative (once again another skeptic automatically appeals to Christianity or Catholocism when speaking of religion in general ). Atheist groups have their literature too. Some now even have tracts.

I liked that list of atheist charities. What was it up to, about 5? Is that it? Glad you found some.

Sincerely,

S. H.

 

[Dancing David]

Thanz;
I am very honored that you answered my question, and I am glad to know that there are church going people who do care.

I once was involved in an unfortunate experiment, see I worked with like these individuals living with mental illness, and we like tried to build these support networks for them. And we thought hey lets call these churches and see if we couldn't get them involved, just to maybe be involved by sharing meals or being a friend to the friend less. We go a resounding Thank You but NO! It wasn't a formal experiment just a bunch of social workers trying to help thier clients.

Then there is this huge amount of blaming the homeless that goes on in my community, the NIMBY thing. The local men's emergency shelter tries and tries, the local gospel based missions try. The big churches with the money just keep saying no, as I said there are some maninstream churches that contribute, but they are few.
I didn't mean to say that atheists give more than Xian, anecdotaly most of the volunteers I know are a mix of don't believe, might believe and do believe.
My comment was directed towards the bible thumpers who glory in hospital and programs that they never helped.
I am sorry, I should have been more moderate.
Very few people have compassion in the US.

Peace

 

[lyghtningbyrd]

There is no correlation between moral sensibility and religion. I would guess there is an equal amount of humanitarian minded individuals in and out of churches. If I'm wrong, it doesn't really matter. My point is far from this. My point is that if you calculated the amount of square footage of all 300,000 churches, its appalling to waste such a large resource on these useless cults.

I'm pretty sure the churches aren't going anywhere anytime soon - large corporations don't go down without a fight.

 

[Guest]

Dear lyghtningbyrd,

My point is that if you calculated the amount of square footage of all 300,000 churches, its appalling to waste such a large resource on these useless cults.

They obviosuly are useful if there are more theist charities than atheist charitites.

They obviously aren't a "waste" if they are charities and are helping people (which they are).

They obvious aren't cults simply because you don't like them.

It is tough. You don't like religion so you basically say it is "useless", a "cult", etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Fine then, then go make atheism better and set up charities, and just make sure you use smaller buildings if that is what bugs you. Maybe churches are so big because they help more people. Who knows.

You are just jealous because you don't have a big organ. Yes, I am speaking musical here.

Sincerely,

S. H.

 

[DialecticMaterialist]

Realistically, were any of the large churches in Sydney to open their doors for this purpose they would need security guards to maintain order and they would probably be unable to obtain insurance to protect either church property or to protect the church from liability in the case of any of their overnight guests being injured or killed.

Well that's not showing very much faith.

 

[lyghtningbyrd]

I'm not going to start some athiest group. I don't understand why people need to be a part of groups - it's a silly ritual.

And yes churches do donate - but that doesn't change the fact that they are a waste of space.

People, if they feel the need for one of these CULTS, can pray on their own time, at their own houses. And if they let the homeless people be housed in them, those that were religious could do the same.

I am actually quite biased I have to admit - I've hated church and sunday school since I was little. I used to steal from the collection plate when my mother forced me to go.

 

[Thanz]

My point is far from this. My point is that if you calculated the amount of square footage of all 300,000 churches, its appalling to waste such a large resource on these useless cults.

Then you don't really have a point, do you? People could say the same thing about golf courses, football fields, baseball diamonds, race tracks, bowling alleys, fitness clubs, or anything else that they don't enjoy.

Really, its appalling to see such a large waste of resources on football in the US (where it has replaced all others as the religion of choice). What a waste of resources on this useless cult of 'football'.

 

[Torment]

Then you don't really have a point, do you? People could say the same thing about golf courses, football fields, baseball diamonds, race tracks, bowling alleys, fitness clubs, or anything else that they don't enjoy.

Really, its appalling to see such a large waste of resources on football in the US (where it has replaced all others as the religion of choice). What a waste of resources on this useless cult of 'football'.

Well there is the fact that most of those places employ a very large amount of people, and without them there would be even more homeless people. Most churches are providing maybe one or two jobs and salaries for the priests, and everything else is pretty much volunteer work.

I'll admit that in some cases the ratio of people they employ to the space they take up is large. In those cases I don't see any problem with having them torn down and giving deeds to sections of the land to the homeless or whoever..

Also in some cases like football field and baseball fields, I am against the fact that some cities actually use tax money to build that crap. Let the players pay for their own d@mn fields, they are getting paid way more then they earn anyways....

 

[Dancing David]

Thanz, you crack me up, thank you.

I am a football atheist too!

Peace

 

[A_Feeble_Mind]

They obviosuly are useful if there are more theist charities than atheist charitites.

Although I do not doubt that theist charities are useful, I argue that your claim that there are more theist than atheist charities is incorrect. To be an athiest charity, all that is required is that the charity does not make a part of its work for a god. Thus, the March of Dimes and the American Red Cross are two examples of what could be considered atheist charities.

 

[Guest]

Dear lyghtningbyrd,

I'm not going to start some athiest group. I don't understand why people need to be a part of groups - it's a silly ritual.

Interesting. You go on about silly groups, yet you admit that atheists are in groups, and therefore they are also participating in "silly ritual"s.

Oh, but everyone in groups, except atheists are silly, right?

And yes churches do donate - but that doesn't change the fact that they are a waste of space.

That are a good use of space. They are useful. They help people in many ways. The fact that you don't like them or agree, doesn't change that.

I am actually quite biased I have to admit - I've hated church and sunday school since I was little. I used to steal from the collection plate when my mother forced me to go.

It is good to recognize your biases. I wish that more of the critical thinkers would do that, and quit pretending they are Bias-Free (tm).

Sincerely,

S. H.

 

[Guest]

Dear A_Feeble_Mind,

Although I do not doubt that theist charities are useful, I argue that your claim that there are more theist than atheist charities is incorrect. To be an athiest charity, all that is required is that the charity does not make a part of its work for a god. Thus, the March of Dimes and the American Red Cross are two examples of what could be considered atheist charities.

Fine then A_Feeble_Mind. Then by your criteria, any theist charity is one that has members that do believe in god(s), which are far more numerous that atheist charities.

Of course, you probably know very well that by saying 'atheist charity', I was meaning a charity that is specifically from an atheist organization.

Sincerely,

S. H.

 

[A_Feeble_Mind]

Dear A_Feeble_Mind,



Fine then A_Feeble_Mind. Then by your criteria, any theist charity is one that has members that do believe in god(s), which are far more numerous that atheist charities.

Of course, you probably know very well that by saying 'atheist charity', I was meaning a charity that is specifically from an atheist organization.

Sincerely,

S. H.

Not by the belief of the members, but the intent of the charity.

Part of my reasoning is that an atheist would not have a reason to create an organization based on not believing in something to promote a different, unrelated cause. Being an atheist has nothing to do with birth defects; why create a special group called the Atheist March of Dimes when one already exists that serves the purpose needed?

Someone has previously listed several charities that are the atheist organizations by your description, but I don't understand why there would be any at all. If I want to help a charity, I don't feel that it has to specifically claim that it is athiest, as long as the funds and works are used for helping and not spreading a certain faith.

 

[Dancing David]

I still believe that many people hide behind the :There are Christian hospitals thing.

Yeah and how many gave to the hospital and how many just take credit for it.

Sigh, Americans just have no compassion for the homeless. it goes against the pioneer myth too strongly to ever act like maybe we could help each other.

Churches aren't the worst offenders just the most hypocritical, corporate giving is a joke, most corporations are no where near as generous as Bill Gates.

Ignore the problems at your own peril people, the homeless are your family too. When it happens to you because of whateever, then you won't be so uncaring.

Remember 75% of the homeless are children.


Peace

 

[Guest]

Dear A_Feeble_Mind,

Part of my reasoning is that an atheist would not have a reason to create an organization based on not believing in something to promote a different, unrelated cause.

You got that right, they have excuses for not creating organizations that help.

, as long as the funds and works are used for helping and not spreading a certain faith.

But it is ok to use funds and works to help spread a certain idea? Non-faith? (or anti-religion in many cases)

Sincerely,

S. H.