Why does holocaust get all the publicity in the USA media but media never talks about the Holodomor? Why doesn"t americans and jews think that Holodomor was a genocide? Is there a conspiracy to cover up Holodomor because the man who was responsible for Holodomor was a jew named Lazar Kaganovich? I have never heard Fox News or AIPAC say anything about holodomor, I wonder why?
Holodomor
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tomwaits
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Well, scholars tend to debate as to whether it was intentional murder on the part of the Soviet authorities or whether it was due to their economic incompetence (they were communists, after all). It is much easier to point to the gas chambers in Auschwitz-Birkenau to show how deliberate the killings were.
And, of course, the Soviet Union won WWII and Germany lost.
And, of course, the Soviet Union won WWII and Germany lost.
applecorped
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The peak of the tragedy was reached in 1932-1933. Contrary to some apologists
of totalitarian rulers, the Famine was not the result of a natural catastrophe.
It was, as is stated in the journal
of totalitarian rulers, the Famine was not the result of a natural catastrophe.
It was, as is stated in the journal
Mezhdunarodnye otnosheniia (Moscow,
2002), artificially created, since all grain, to the very last, was taken from the
villages. Indeed, Stalin’s totalitarian regime pursued a purposeful and ruthless
policy of grain procurement, regardless of the costs; ultimately, the supply of
grain became a political tool for the submission of the Ukrainian people. And
the costs were counted in the millions of people who starved to death while the
Soviet government exported grain (18.1 million tons in 1932, 10 million tons
in 1933) in order to reach its political and industrial objectives. The 7 million
Ukrainians who starved to death did not matter to Stalin and his criminal
henchmen.
http://www.ukrainianmuseum.org/0311ukrmus_UNFamineBrochure.pdf
2002), artificially created, since all grain, to the very last, was taken from the
villages. Indeed, Stalin’s totalitarian regime pursued a purposeful and ruthless
policy of grain procurement, regardless of the costs; ultimately, the supply of
grain became a political tool for the submission of the Ukrainian people. And
the costs were counted in the millions of people who starved to death while the
Soviet government exported grain (18.1 million tons in 1932, 10 million tons
in 1933) in order to reach its political and industrial objectives. The 7 million
Ukrainians who starved to death did not matter to Stalin and his criminal
henchmen.
http://www.ukrainianmuseum.org/0311ukrmus_UNFamineBrochure.pdf
applecorped
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Lazar Kaganovich didn't care that many of the peasants were Jewish. It was about grain procurement. If the peasants had all been Christians they still would have died. It has nothing to do with race, religion or ethnicity.
Who except and anti-semite would compare tragedies and protest that one is being suppressed by victims of the other?
You're a fool.
If you want to talk about Holomodor stop whining that it isn't talked about enough, do it yourself: write about it, make a movie, tell people and stop using it for an excuse to blame the Jews again.
You're only showing your anti-semitism.
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sleeplessdwarf
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Reading this sound exactly what AJ and the "white power" crowd attribute to FDR and the number of americans that were starved during the depression. Makes a lot more sense now.
sleeplessdwarf
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Moons's post are way too often meant to show his belief in many CTs here. With his constant double speak concerning jews, I have wondered if he is maybe Magz using another nick. As far as I can remember he does not respond to direct questions, much like dear old Magz.
defaultdotxbe
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wasnt this also due to local governors overstating yields to make themselves look better?
so then when moscow took their percentage it ended up being a much larger cut because they were basing it on the overstated reports from the governors?
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
BTW, almost every major Jewish Organization in the US has officially taking notice of and condemned the Hodomar. It is often mention in discussions of the Holocuast.
I agree that it should get some more attention, and I think it is pretty disgusting that there are a few "scholars" who deny it took place'(Most of them are....surprise...hard line old style Marxist who are trying to prove that Stalin was a vicitm of Captalists propaganda).
It is sad that Moon has Gone Over To The Dark Side.
I agree that it should get some more attention, and I think it is pretty disgusting that there are a few "scholars" who deny it took place'(Most of them are....surprise...hard line old style Marxist who are trying to prove that Stalin was a vicitm of Captalists propaganda).
It is sad that Moon has Gone Over To The Dark Side.
In fact Ukraine, Argentina, Australia, Azerbaijan, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Czech Republic, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Estonia, Georgia, Hungary, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Mexico, Moldova, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Spain, United States, and Vatican City all consider the Holodomor as an act of genocide but Israel, Russia and United Kingdom do not, I wonder why?
sleeplessdwarf
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"Although there has been much academic recognition of the Armenian Genocide, this has not always been followed by governmental and media recognition. Many governments, including the governments of Israel, the United Kingdom, Ukraine, and Georgia, do not officially use the word "genocide" to describe these events. However, 42 of the 50 U.S. states have made individual proclamations recognizing the events of 1915 to 1923 as genocide.[5]
First, in 2001, the Canadian provinces of Ontario and Quebec independently of their federal government, then, in 2004, the government of Canada itself recognized the Armenian Genocide.[6][7] The Parliament of the State of New South Wales, Australia passed a resolution acknowledging and condemning the Armenian Genocide in 1997.[8]
In recent years, parliaments of several countries, including France and Switzerland, have formally recognized the event as genocide. Turkish entry talks with the European Union were met with a number of calls to consider the event as genocide,[9][10][11] though it never became a precondition."
It seems that when it comes to genocide, many have mixed feelings on what is and what is not. Is there more proof for the holodomor than that of the Armenian genocide? If not, then why does Ukraine join the list with Isreal, and not use the word "genocide"? I think it is much more about politics and less about denial of the actions.
First, in 2001, the Canadian provinces of Ontario and Quebec independently of their federal government, then, in 2004, the government of Canada itself recognized the Armenian Genocide.[6][7] The Parliament of the State of New South Wales, Australia passed a resolution acknowledging and condemning the Armenian Genocide in 1997.[8]
In recent years, parliaments of several countries, including France and Switzerland, have formally recognized the event as genocide. Turkish entry talks with the European Union were met with a number of calls to consider the event as genocide,[9][10][11] though it never became a precondition."
It seems that when it comes to genocide, many have mixed feelings on what is and what is not. Is there more proof for the holodomor than that of the Armenian genocide? If not, then why does Ukraine join the list with Isreal, and not use the word "genocide"? I think it is much more about politics and less about denial of the actions.
Is this about the Holodomor or your hatred of Jews?
Travis
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I have often seen the Holodomor portrayed as genocide in the US media. For example in the HBO movie on Stalin with Robert Duvall.
But if the Holodomor was a genocide because grain was exported out of the Ukraine during the famine was the Irish Potato Famine also genocide since Britain continued to import food from Ireland while the Irish starved?
But if the Holodomor was a genocide because grain was exported out of the Ukraine during the famine was the Irish Potato Famine also genocide since Britain continued to import food from Ireland while the Irish starved?
Is killing a certain class of people...and not an ethnicity or religion or culture..a genocide? Perhaps it is.
Im sure many Jews in the Ukraine died as the result of the Holodomor. Im sure most of the folks who carried out the Holodomor were NOT Jewish..but were Russian and Ukrainian Soviets soldiers and beaurocrats. The Nazi leadership thought up the Holocaust, but it was your everyday SS and Wehrmacht soldier who did the actual killing.
But, lets say, for arguments sake, ALL of the Soviet leadership who planned and devised the scheme to starve the peasants of Ukraine were all Jewish. What in the world does that have to do with the 2 million or so Jews who lived in Ukraine?
My two grandfathers both came from Ukraine. One from Kiev and another from a little town in Carpathia called Skolje. Are these two men guilty of the crimes of a Jewish Soviet in Moscow?
Im sure many Jews in the Ukraine died as the result of the Holodomor. Im sure most of the folks who carried out the Holodomor were NOT Jewish..but were Russian and Ukrainian Soviets soldiers and beaurocrats. The Nazi leadership thought up the Holocaust, but it was your everyday SS and Wehrmacht soldier who did the actual killing.
But, lets say, for arguments sake, ALL of the Soviet leadership who planned and devised the scheme to starve the peasants of Ukraine were all Jewish. What in the world does that have to do with the 2 million or so Jews who lived in Ukraine?
My two grandfathers both came from Ukraine. One from Kiev and another from a little town in Carpathia called Skolje. Are these two men guilty of the crimes of a Jewish Soviet in Moscow?
applecorped
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I don't think England rounded up Irish citizens and dropped them off in the middle of frozen wastelands to die but I could be wrong.
From previous link above:
"Since the farmers, known for their independence, refused to join the collective
farms, Stalin decided to “liquidate them as a class.” The process of “liquida-
tion”reached a high point in the winter of 1929-1930 when hundreds of thou-
sands were expropriated, dragged from their homes, packed into freight trains,
and shipped to the far north where they were dumped in the arctic, often with-
out food or shelter. By the beginning of the 1930s the totalitarian regime had
seized more than 1 million Ukrainian peasants and deported more than
850,000 to the north, where many perished. "
I'm pretty sure most educated people know that the Soviet Union and China and Cambodia and the other communist countries were responsible for the deaths of millions of their own citizens and the citizens of surrounding countries.
They tended to get less negative coverage in the old days than Hitler. Partly this was because the Nazis were in no position to hide their atrocities after the war, because the communists helped to win WWII and because at least some of the journalists and historians who recorded history were either sympathetic to Communism or were duped by the propoganda. There were probably other reasons too but the deaths caused by the Communist states has been pretty well known for several generations.
The Holocaust is remembered so strongly, not only because of the marvellous efforts of the victims but also because the Germans have been so willing to publicise their wrong-doing and because their former enemies in the West didn't want to see Nazism re-emerge (and probably felt some guilt for not being able to stop the events sooner). It is my impression that Russia and China don't seem to have come to terms with their actions in the same way that Germany has.
They tended to get less negative coverage in the old days than Hitler. Partly this was because the Nazis were in no position to hide their atrocities after the war, because the communists helped to win WWII and because at least some of the journalists and historians who recorded history were either sympathetic to Communism or were duped by the propoganda. There were probably other reasons too but the deaths caused by the Communist states has been pretty well known for several generations.
The Holocaust is remembered so strongly, not only because of the marvellous efforts of the victims but also because the Germans have been so willing to publicise their wrong-doing and because their former enemies in the West didn't want to see Nazism re-emerge (and probably felt some guilt for not being able to stop the events sooner). It is my impression that Russia and China don't seem to have come to terms with their actions in the same way that Germany has.
that's horrible. there should indeed be a memorial to the poor victims of the Holodomor. Especially in areas that have large Ukrainian populations, like NYC and Chicago. Is the Holodomor included in the discussions of genocide at the Holocaust Museum in DC? I refuse to go to that place so I wouldnt know.
Why haven't the Ukranian communities made memorials? Must be those darn Zhids (Jews).
Ok, I get why Israel is in your argument. And you also believe that Jews control Russia. But why does the UK fit your argument?