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Holocaust deniers, explain this.

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kageki said:
"The Elite Guard Commandant of the camp had a prostitute wife who was clever in handicraft. They would bring these new prisoners in from all over Europe. They would watch, and if they had unusual tattoo marks, that skin would be cut off and given to her to be tanned, while the victim still lived; or, if he struggled, they killed him and then worked more effectively. Out of this skin lampshades and novelties were made."

How horrible.
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How'd you like the "No Moral Law" part? Sound familiar?
 
kageki said:
I see light from my lamp right now actually.
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Seriously, is this the best you can do? Because it's really, really pathetic. Neo-Nazis used to have some interesting points even if they were rabid and perverted. These days I get amateurs who can't even spell NDSAP. (Go ahead, try. It will probably come out NASDAQ.)
 
Gawdzilla said:
Seriously, is this the best you can do? Because it's really, really pathetic. Neo-Nazis used to have some interesting points even if they were rabid and perverted. These days I get amateurs who can't even spell NDSAP. (Go ahead, try. It will probably come out NASDAQ.)
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What does it say about the documentary?

It says to me it was propaganda.
 
kageki said:
everyone knows that if you take the gas chambers away then the Holocaust by all means disappears.
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This is false. The Nazis killed millions of innocents in a truly horrific attempt to promote a "master race." The gas chambers in themselves do not define the Holocaust -- the scale and heinous nature of the murders do. The level of starvation and suffering in particular is the stuff of nightmares. The gas chambers are by no means the worst of it.
 
eerok said:
This is false. The Nazis killed millions of innocents in a truly horrific attempt to promote a "master race." The gas chambers in themselves do not define the Holocaust -- the scale and heinous nature of the murders do. The level of starvation and suffering in particular is the stuff of nightmares. The gas chambers are by no means the worst of it.
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That's one opinion. Now ask everyone else.

Maybe not define, but it is most certainly a critical element.
 
kageki said:
That's one opinion. Now ask everyone else.
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So you assert that the term "holocaust" does not refer to the sheer genocidal scale of the slaughter? And how many opinions do you speak for?

As bad as the gassing of innocents was, it was not as graphically powerful as the emaciated corpses stacked like cordwood, or the walking dead crowding the barbed wire fences, or the pits full of slaughtered women and children, etc. These are the things that stick in the mind. And even as bad as those images are, it's the numbers that are the most appalling thing.

kageki said:
[re: the gas chambers] Maybe not define, but it is most certainly a critical element.
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You'll never succeed in dismissing the gas chambers, so even this gambit is a waste of time. You'll have to do better than a PRATT or a sneaky waffle on its way back to one. No one is fooled. It's not as easy to rewrite history as you seem to think.
 
kageki said:
After reading the arguments against gas chambers, I have started to think that it was actually impossible and unlikely. Certainly anything is "possible", but I found the arguments against gas chambers compelling.

Why is it such a big deal to you?

That's because everyone knows that if you take the gas chambers away then the Holocaust by all means disappears. That's why method matters.

What do you think will happen if gas chambers turn out to be false? Is it clear to you now?
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This is so bizarre to me. I like coming here and running into people who believe strange things, and trying to figure them out, but this is my first foray into Holocaust denial, and I must say I find it very strange. Therefore, please forgive me if my questions aren't as clear as they could be.

As for the gas chambers, there are two ways to address your question about why the gas chambers matter. One way is to note that they really don't. Even if there were no gas chambers there would be mass executions by bullets, and gas vans, and starvation, and lots and lots of just plain old hangings of innocent people. The gas chambers were just one way out of many that Jews and others were killed, so even if it turns out that the gas chambers were false, the Nazis would still have lots and lots of evil left over.

However, I don't think that's the best answer. I think a better way to address the question would be to note that the evidence for the existence of the gas chambers is so incredibly overwhelming that the only way they could NOT exist would be if there were a massive, incredible, and well orchestrated conspiracy to fabricate evidence of their existence. Furthermore, the conspirators would have to maintain their silence and stick to their stories for their entire lives, (some of which ended on a rope shortly after the end of the war, without recanting the confessions) without a crack in their armor. So, yes, it would be a big deal to find out the gas chambers did not exist, because it would be proof of some amazing secret society that manipulated the governments of the world, the media, and every other element of society.

I always wondered why such groups stay in the shadows. With that kind of power, you would think they wouldn't mind coming out. Who is going to stop them? They control every group that could get in their way?

I don't know what it was that you found compelling in the arguments against the existence of the gas chambers, but whatever it was, you've been duped. They really existed.
 
Meadmaker said:
This is so bizarre to me. I like coming here and running into people who believe strange things, and trying to figure them out, but this is my first foray into Holocaust denial, and I must say I find it very strange. Therefore, please forgive me if my questions aren't as clear as they could be.

As for the gas chambers, there are two ways to address your question about why the gas chambers matter. One way is to note that they really don't. Even if there were no gas chambers there would be mass executions by bullets, and gas vans, and starvation, and lots and lots of just plain old hangings of innocent people. The gas chambers were just one way out of many that Jews and others were killed, so even if it turns out that the gas chambers were false, the Nazis would still have lots and lots of evil left over.

However, I don't think that's the best answer. I think a better way to address the question would be to note that the evidence for the existence of the gas chambers is so incredibly overwhelming that the only way they could NOT exist would be if there were a massive, incredible, and well orchestrated conspiracy to fabricate evidence of their existence. Furthermore, the conspirators would have to maintain their silence and stick to their stories for their entire lives, (some of which ended on a rope shortly after the end of the war, without recanting the confessions) without a crack in their armor. So, yes, it would be a big deal to find out the gas chambers did not exist, because it would be proof of some amazing secret society that manipulated the governments of the world, the media, and every other element of society.

I always wondered why such groups stay in the shadows. With that kind of power, you would think they wouldn't mind coming out. Who is going to stop them? They control every group that could get in their way?

I don't know what it was that you found compelling in the arguments against the existence of the gas chambers, but whatever it was, you've been duped. They really existed.
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That's really cute. "Jews and others". Apparently everyone else isn't worth to be mentioned by name.

Did you watch the documentary? They were considerate enough to mention these "others". Where do you get the notion of "Jews and others" based on the OP? It's impossible to conclude about Jews from the materials provided.

Were those innocent German civilians ever later told those skin lampshades weren't true?
 
kageki said:
That's really cute. "Jews and others". Apparently everyone else isn't worth to be mentioned by name.

Did you watch the documentary? They were considerate enough to mention these "others". Where do you get the notion of "Jews and others" based on the OP? It's impossible to conclude about Jews from the materials provided.

Were those innocent German civilians ever later told those skin lampshades weren't true?
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You'll do anything except address the real issue.What a waste of time this thread is turning out to be.
 
kageki said:
That's really cute. "Jews and others". Apparently everyone else isn't worth to be mentioned by name.
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Well, the usual Nazi apologists only throw fits about the mass murder of Jews... one might even come to the conclusion that they don´t like Jews.

Give it up, Kageki. The Nazis intentionally murdered millions of Jews, and millions of other people including gypsies, Poles, Slavs, homosexuals, disabled, mentally ill, communists, and so on.

None of your word games and none of the lies of today´s Nazi apologists are going to change that. The evidence is overwhelming, and no word games or lies are going to change that, either.
 
Chaos said:
Well, the usual Nazi apologists only throw fits about the mass murder of Jews... one might even come to the conclusion that they don´t like Jews.

Give it up, Kageki. The Nazis intentionally murdered millions of Jews, and millions of other people including gypsies, Poles, Slavs, homosexuals, disabled, mentally ill, communists, and so on.

None of your word games and none of the lies of today´s Nazi apologists are going to change that. The evidence is overwhelming, and no word games or lies are going to change that, either.
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Well put.Is it too much to hope that the thread will end now? There is no more to be said.
 
Chaos said:
Well, the usual Nazi apologists only throw fits about the mass murder of Jews... one might even come to the conclusion that they don´t like Jews.

Give it up, Kageki. The Nazis intentionally murdered millions of Jews, and millions of other people including gypsies, Poles, Slavs, homosexuals, disabled, mentally ill, communists, and so on.

None of your word games and none of the lies of today´s Nazi apologists are going to change that. The evidence is overwhelming, and no word games or lies are going to change that, either.
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If that's all then it isn't anything unique in history. The issue is if the "Holocaust" happened.
 
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