Holocaust Denial Videos

[The Big Dog]

Oh Hai Budly:

Hi Everyone,

I just read all the posts and a lot of people said "why should we watch these videos." I'll give some reasons:

There are major players in the Middle East who are holocaust deniers. Mahmoud Ahmahdinejad of Iran for instance. Then there's Mahmoud Abbas, the President of the Palestinian Authority who did a doctoral dissertation that had a holocaust denial aspect.

If you think holocaust denial is just pure madness, it's easy to think Ahmahdinejad is mad, and it's easier for the public to think it's o.k. to bomb Iran, overthrow the regime, just like the USA did in the early 1950's.

Thus it's perhaps good to understand what holocaust denial is, and the best way to learn about it, is to read what deniers say in their own words.

Here's another reason, the video Buchenwald makes the claim that a Psyche Warfare Operation took place at Buchenwald. Does that stop there? No, because extrapolating from that, the video Nazi Shrunken Heads claims that a Psyche Warfare Operation was likely waged against Idi Amin. Afterall, don't you think a leader who is so delusional that he thinks he's the "Last King of Scotland" is a bit farfetched? As far fetched as nazis shrinking heads?

Granted that holocaust deniers focusing on lampshades and shrunken heads, is basically minutiae of the holocaust. But it's not enough just to discount it. Go deeper: why was the belief there in the first place: Answer: Allied Psyche Warfare operation.

If shrunken heads are minutiae, then the video One Third of the Holocaust is not. That video is about Treblinka, Sobibor, and Belzec, and were you to read Professor Timothy Snyder's article called "Holocaust: The Ignored Reality" in the New York Review of Books on 7/16/9, you would find his claim that these camps (not Auschwitz) are the center of an adequate version of holocaust history.

It's easy to dip into these videos. Just look at episode 1 of One Third Of the Holocaust. It puts forth the notion that the most important Treblinka eyewitness, Yankel Wiernik, is a fraud. Afterward you can read a rebuttal backed by Nick Terry and Woolf that claims Wiernik is not a fraud. Some people here state that these rebuttals are so rock solid that there's no need to watch the video. The rebuttal is called "Historiography as seen by an ignorant charlatan." You'll have to ask yourself if that sounds like the title to a rock solid scholarly rebuttal. Anyway, watching episode 1, and then reading the rebuttal is a good way to dip into these videos.

In short, holocaust denial is important to understand because it's a belief of key players in the mideast. To chalk it off to madness and hate makes it easier for the media to generate a pro-war consensus against Iran and other countries. Also the Psyche Warfare aspect of it, reverberated into the 70's with deposing Idi Amin. These are two points among many why it's important to know about holocaust denial, and the best way? From a denier's own words at holocaust denial videos. If you learn about holocaust denial by people against it, you're going to get a strawman portrayal. Meaning they create their own straw man, and then knock it down themselves.

Huh, can't really wait to dip my toes into your videos that you are spamming here with rocket scientists like those!

 

[Nick Terry]

Afterward you can read a rebuttal backed by Nick Terry and Woolf that claims Wiernik is not a fraud. Some people here state that these rebuttals are so rock solid that there's no need to watch the video. The rebuttal is called "Historiography as seen by an ignorant charlatan." You'll have to ask yourself if that sounds like the title to a rock solid scholarly rebuttal.

DUUUUUH, those videos are not scholarly. That's like elevating Loose Change to a 'peer reviewed study' or something.

Damn, where's the my-head-hurts smilie when you need it?

 

[Budly]

Hi Woolf, Hi Nick Terry

I slept 8 hours, got up and read the posts and responded. You guys then posted responses before I was barely done. Had you been hitting the reload button for hours? You guys must be getting paid. Look at the time of the posts. I don't post for what 10 hours? And you post 2 minutes after mine? LOL.

 

[Horatius]

There are major players in the Middle East who are holocaust deniers. Mahmoud Ahmahdinejad of Iran for instance. Then there's Mahmoud Abbas, the President of the Palestinian Authority who did a doctoral dissertation that had a holocaust denial aspect.

If you think holocaust denial is just pure madness, it's easy to think Ahmahdinejad is mad, and it's easier for the public to think it's o.k. to bomb Iran, overthrow the regime, just like the USA did in the early 1950's.

Well, finally a reason. Now, we must ask, "Is it a good reason?"

If I'm interested in learning what Holocaust deniers have to say, because certain Holocaust deniers have positions of power in the Middle East, why would I turn to these videos as my source? You mention that Mahmoud Abbas wrote a thesis that contained elements of denial. If I was interested in learning his position, would it not be better to find a copy of that thesis?

In other words, why would I assume that the reasons you deny the Holocaust are the exact same as the reasons Mahmoud Abbas denies it?

You also choose to ignore the many other reasons that we might some day go to war with Iran, promoting Holocaust denial to a primary position that it quite simply does not warrant. I have never seen any suggestion, other than yours, that we should go to war with Iran over the issue of Holocaust denial. In fact, I'd suggest that the vast majority of people are largely unaware that Ahmahdinejad is a denier. If we ever go to war with Iran, it will almost certainly be because of conflicts in Iraq or the Persian Gulf.

...and the best way? From a denier's own words at holocaust denial videos. If you learn about holocaust denial by people against it, you're going to get a strawman portrayal. Meaning they create their own straw man, and then knock it down themselves.

Of course, it's not clear that the "best" way to learn about a subject is from the proponents of that subject. Quite often that's the worst way, as they make assumptions about levels of knowledge that are inaccurate, and thus leave people behind in their discussions.

Notwithstanding that, you've suggested that opponents of deniers may have created Strawmen arguments. However, you have failed to show that this has occurred, despite more than sufficient opportunities to do so. You've seen the rebuttals to your videos, yet you still have not pointed out even one area where such rebuttals misrepresented your positions. The closest you've come is to disparage the title of the document, which is, quite literally, the most superficial response you could have provided.

So, go ahead, show us these "strawmen" that your opponents have created.

 

[Horatius]

Hi Woolf, Hi Nick Terry

I slept 8 hours, got up and read the posts and responded. You guys then posted responses before I was barely done. Had you been hitting the reload button for hours? You guys must be getting paid. Look at the time of the posts. I don't post for what 10 hours? And you post 2 minutes after mine? LOL.

You do realize that people post from different time zones, right? You do know what time zones are, right?

 

[Par]

Hi Woolf, Hi Nick Terry

I slept 8 hours, got up and read the posts and responded. You guys then posted responses before I was barely done. Had you been hitting the reload button for hours? You guys must be getting paid. Look at the time of the posts. I don't post for what 10 hours? And you post 2 minutes after mine? LOL.

Deranged, of course.

 

[The Big Dog]

Hi Woolf, Hi Nick Terry

I slept 8 hours, got up and read the posts and responded. You guys then posted responses before I was barely done. Had you been hitting the reload button for hours? You guys must be getting paid. Look at the time of the posts. I don't post for what 10 hours? And you post 2 minutes after mine? LOL.

Hey, how about me? I just happened to be reading the thread while having a little lunch, and i'm not getting paid!

Mind you, I would have posted quicker, but I was still laughing.

 

[Nick Terry]

Hi Woolf, Hi Nick Terry

I slept 8 hours, got up and read the posts and responded. You guys then posted responses before I was barely done. Had you been hitting the reload button for hours? You guys must be getting paid. Look at the time of the posts. I don't post for what 10 hours? And you post 2 minutes after mine? LOL.

Again it seems you are reasoning like a small child and need to have some fairly obvious things pointed out to you. If you LOOK at the date stamps I responded to a post BY HORATIUS which appeared BEFORE your response and thus my reply TO HORATIUS appeared AFTER your response. Thus when the page reloaded to update with my reply TO HORATIUS, I saw your response.

As it was basically drivel, it took me no more than 2 minutes to read and reply with a one-liner. A few more remarks followed thereafter, I think I went to take a piss in between some of them.

 

[JimBenArm]

I need to watch your crap videos to understand why stupid people in power deny the Holocaust? No, not so much. The reason they deny it is even simpler. They hate Jews. All Jews. So, in order to make their hatred so much more complete, they deny that horrible things happened to them. End of story.
See? I just saved myself a bunch of time by not having to watch your crappy videos. I also saved a bunch of money on my car insurance.

 

[Klimax]

Hi Woolf, Hi Nick Terry

I slept 8 hours, got up and read the posts and responded. You guys then posted responses before I was barely done. Had you been hitting the reload button for hours? You guys must be getting paid. Look at the time of the posts. I don't post for what 10 hours? And you post 2 minutes after mine? LOL.

Why? This happens all the time here.

And since you post very familiar things to them,the time needed for response is very low. And lenght of post can be significant yet will take only few minutes because poster knows too well given subject.

Now could we have some written claims? Videos are not nice as they often take more time to listen than to read text with same content.(Like transcription...)

 

[dudalb]

There are major players in the Middle East who are holocaust deniers. Mahmoud Ahmahdinejad of Iran for instance. Then there's Mahmoud Abbas, the President of the Palestinian Authority who did a doctoral dissertation that had a holocaust denial aspect.

If you think holocaust denial is just pure madness, it's easy to think Ahmahdinejad is mad, and it's easier for the public to think it's o.k. to bomb Iran, overthrow the regime, just like the USA did in the early 1950's.

Thus it's perhaps good to understand what holocaust denial is, and the best way to learn about it, is to read what deniers say in their own words.

I would say a vast majority of the people here think Ahmahdinejad is a nutjob and a thug...as recent events in Iran show. Just the kind of guy a Holocaust Denier would like.
And I might be making a wild,wild, dumb guess here, but I would not be all surprised if Budly is also a 9/11 Truther.
And it won't be long now until my earlier prediction comes true and how he really feels about Jews and other "inferiors" come out, as it always does.

 

[Horatius]

I just noticed something I completely missed first time through!

and the best way to learn about it, is to read what deniers say in their own words.

If you want us to "read" what deniers have to say, why then do you insist we must watch a video? Pretty much everyone here has been asking you to please, please, write out even a brief description of what it is you think you can tell us that is so different from what has already gone before, and this is exactly what you have refused to do.

Even Nick Terry, who is clearly not at all impressed with your scholarship, has indicated a willingness to consider your arguments of you were to provide them in a textual format, but you still refuse to do that. What, then, are we to take away from your sales pitch, other than a good Stundie nomination?

 

[Budly]

The reason nobody can refute the video Buchenwald, is because they can't. Notice how Woolf and Nick Terry say they haven't seen it? Notice how no one at holocaustControversies or NIZKOR has ever rebutted anything in it? Notice how no poster here has commented on it?

With 5 pages of posts and 1800 views (though half are mine, LOL) people here have watched the videos. But when you start agreeing with holocaust denial positions, you keep quiet. It's taboo.

 

[Hokulele]

The reason no one has disproven the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is because they can't.

 

[headscratcher4]

Strikes me that these here videos are a lot like having pieces of the true cross.

 

[Horatius]

With 5 pages of posts and 1800 views (though half are mine, LOL) people here have watched the videos. But when you start agreeing with holocaust denial positions, you keep quiet. It's taboo.

So, on the basis of no evidence whatsoever, you've convinced yourself that, not only have people here watched your video, they also agree with it.


And you wonder why people like Nick and his colleagues won't bother listening to you anymore.

 

[Nick Terry]

The reason nobody can refute the video Buchenwald, is because they can't. Notice how Woolf and Nick Terry say they haven't seen it? Notice how no one at holocaustControversies or NIZKOR has ever rebutted anything in it? Notice how no poster here has commented on it?

Again, you reason like a small child. 'You can't refute me nur nur nur' is not actually a very clever argument to make, since it makes the probably foolish claim that someone might not come along at a future date and do exactly that. Denierbud's track record is such that this is surely very likely, given his propensity to make baseless and wholly unfounded allegations that appear to have been invented on the fly.

Even without seeing the video, the subtitle to a clip like

Episode 21: A Scriptwriter's Great Idea: Baking Ovens To Cremation Ove[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ns[/FONT]

does not fill one with great confidence, since it appears at first glance to be making the claim that there were no crematoria at Buchenwald. Are you serious?

Krema Deniers are revisionism's equivalent to no-planers.

The clip before, 'Buchenwald executions', has the cover of Catherine Merridale's Ivan's War on display. Therefore again without seeing the video, one gets the impression that the clip deals with Aktion 14 f 14, the application of so-called Einsatzbefehl Nr 14, which involved the execution of "politically and racially undesirable" Soviet POWs

If the video was a text, one could determine at a glance whether the maker had the linguistic ability and research nous to have read Reinhard Otto's book documenting the extent of Aktion 14 f 14 by among other means locating the card index for Soviet POWs in WASt, and noting the annotations of 'transfers' to concentration camps right before witnesses in the camps, not to mention in some cases other documents, indicate that they were indeed batch-executed by the Lager-SS.

But I'll take a wild ass guess and assert that denierbud, whose command of German seems to be nonexistent, does not know about Otto's book nor has digested its contents, and is therefore trying to deny a well-documented piece of WWII history.

All this is rather by the by, of course. Your advocacy seems to have backed itself into a corner by claiming a special status for supposedly "un-refuted" pieces of work.

Have you any idea how many books relating to the Holocaust have gone undiscussed and unmentioned by 'revisionists'? Or how many documents have been ignored? How many witnesses banished to oblivion by real or pretend ignorance.

If you want to play the 'you can't refute me' game, then fine. I'll match your Buchenwald videos with the following article

Rusiniak, Martyna, ‘Treblinka – Eldorado Podlasia?’, Kwartalnik Historii Zydow 2/2006, pp.200-211

which basically scuppers every piece of online nonsense profferred by deniers on a camp that killed more than twenty times the number of victims recorded for Buchenwald, and it scuppers the denier nonsense without even trying.

Why? Because no denier has ever refuted it.

Nur nur nur nur.

 

[Horatius]

Oh, that is so nominated!

 

[Par]

The reason nobody can refute the video Buchenwald, is because they can't.

Extraordinary.

 

[headscratcher4]

Extraordinary.

You didnt really get the tone right. Try: "Exraordinarilly stupid". Yep, that works.