Holbrooke for a change

[BeAChooser]

http://in.news.yahoo.com/48/20090123/1246/twl-us-appoints-holbrooke-as-special-env.html

US appoints Holbrooke as special envoy for Afghan-Pak region

Fri, Jan 23 01:46 PM

The Obama administration has appointed diplomatic trouble shooter Richard Holbrooke as its special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan and the new envoy immediately said that he would soon head towards the troubled region in South Asia.

Ah yes ... change. Yet another Clinton lackey finds a spot in Obama's new and improved, transparent, hope-filled administration.

Let's see what sort of special envoy you will get.

For those who don't know, Holbrooke openly boasts it was his idea to send Ron Brown on a trade mission to Bosnia ... the one on which Brown died under less than *transparent* circumstances. (Remember, Brown was under investigation for conducting trade missions in which seats were sold in exchange for campaign contributions and Brown had apparently informed the Whitehouse that he was going to turn state's evidence about that and other matters just before he died).

For those who don't know, Holbrooke was the one who moved Bill Clinton into an interventionist stance in Bosnia and Serbia. Holbrooke had no problem with the concept of "nation building" (and I know how you Obama supporters feel about that topic). And Holbrooke had no problem with making an organization (the KLA) identified as terrorist organization our Number One ally in turning Kosovo into an islamic state now run by indicted war criminals. The KLA was also the largest supplier of heroin to Europe. What a coincidence that Afghanistan is the largest producer of that substance now and Holbrooke is against Bush administration attempts to stop its production.

Also, for those who don't know, Holbrooke once described President Milosevic as "a man we can do business with, a man who recognises the realities of life in former Yugoslavia". But it was Holbrooke's effort that led to the Rambouillet peace accord which he then tried to force down Serbia's throat ... resulting in the Kosovo war. Ironically, the agreement would have given Kosovans even less freedom and autonomy than they had under Serbian rule. But the deal breaker was that it required Serbia give up its sovereignty and allow NATO troops to operate anywhere on or above its territory (among a number of other *rights* to be accorded NATO). What a curious choice after all the talk by Obama democrats the last few years about Bush not having to right to interfere in or occupy *independent* Iraq.

Ah yes ... change.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

For those who don't know, Holbrooke openly boasts it was his idea to send Ron Brown on a trade mission to Bosnia ... the one on which Brown died under less than *transparent* circumstances. (Remember, Brown was under investigation for conducting trade missions in which seats were sold in exchange for campaign contributions and Brown had apparently informed the Whitehouse that he was going to turn state's evidence about that and other matters just before he died).

Chooser, I respect your opinions and appreciate your contributions to the discussions here. As I am, like you, a critic of the Clinton and Obama regimes I fell you are best off hearing this from me:

Conspiracy Theory section is that way ---->

 

[BeAChooser]

Conspiracy Theory section is that way ---->

What portion of my post do you view as a conspiracy theory? I can back up all the facts I noted with links from credible sources. Facts are facts.
And if those are facts, then why don't you think they bear on his qualifications for his new job? Don't you think it's a little hypocritical for the people who criticized Bush and put Obama into office, arguing the US had no right to intervene in the affairs of Iraq, to now remain quiet about Holbrooke's appointment given Holbrooke's past interventionist actions?

 

[jj]

Chooser, I respect your opinions and appreciate your contributions to the discussions here. As I am, like you, a critic of the Clinton and Obama regimes I fell you are best off hearing this from me:

Conspiracy Theory section is that way ---->

Perhaps you can explain how you can be a critic of an administration (regime is not the proper term, and implies totalitarian issues) that has been in office 4 days?

Maybe in another thread.

Having said that, I would love to see this special envoy vetted a bit more.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

What portion of my post do you view as a conspiracy theory? I can back up all the facts I noted with links from credible sources. Facts are facts.
And if those are facts, then why don't you think they bear on his qualifications for his new job? Don't you think it's a little hypocritical for the people who criticized Bush and put Obama into office, arguing the US had no right to intervene in the affairs of Iraq, to now remain quiet about Holbrooke's appointment given Holbrooke's past interventionist actions?

Your comments appeared to me to imply that Browns death was anything but an accident.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Perhaps you can explain how you can be a critic of an administration (regime is not the proper term, and implies totalitarian issues) that has been in office 4 days?

See? I managed to annoy a liberal. So you know I'm on your side, Chooser.

 

[BeAChooser]

Perhaps you can explain how you can be a critic of an administration (regime is not the proper term, and implies totalitarian issues) that has been in office 4 days?

Oh, so now we can't be a critic about a specific action the Obama administration makes during some unspecified grace period? How long do we have to wait before you would allow us to make critical remarks? A hundred days? A year? And yes, perhaps it was unfair that the other poster used the word "regime" to describe Obama's administration. Just as it was unfair for Obama supporters to use that word (or worse) when describing Bush's administration.

 

[BeAChooser]

Your comments appeared to me to imply that Browns death was anything but an accident.

You interpreted them correctly. And apparently I'm not alone. For example, all the forensic pathologists that have made public remarks on the Brown case (except one, that being the lackey running AFIP who I can prove lied about the facts in the case and the views of his staff) appear to agree that Brown should have been autopsied because the wound and x-rays suggested a bullet. But instead of doing that, the Clinton administration punished those military pathologists (and a military photographer) for daring to question what happened. Call me skeptical.

 

[Allen773]

Don't feed this troll.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

You interpreted them correctly. And apparently I'm not alone. For example, all the forensic pathologists that have made public remarks on the Brown case (except one, that being the lackey running AFIP who I can prove lied about the facts in the case and the views of his staff) appear to agree that Brown should have been autopsied because the wound and x-rays suggested a bullet. But instead of doing that, the Clinton administration punished those military pathologists (and a military photographer) for daring to question what happened. Call me skeptical.

Conspiracy Theory section is that way ---->

 

[Allen773]

We get it. You think Clinton was a murderer.

At least we know that Bush's wars have leads to hundreds of thousands of deaths, but we're not gonna do anything about it. Why should Clinton be any different?

 

[BeAChooser]

Conspiracy Theory section is that way ---->

Hey I just noted a few facts. You draw your own conclusions. If they suggest to you that Brown might have been murdered, maybe you should look into it. If they don't, maybe you should ask yourself why not? Are you that trusting of an administration that appears to have broken just about every other law in the books?

 

[The Fool]

Obviously he was killed by professor plum in the library with the candlestick.....

 

[Allen773]

Hey I just noted a few facts. You draw your own conclusions. If they suggest to you that Brown might have been murdered, maybe you should look into it. If they don't, maybe you should ask yourself why not? Are you that trusting of an administration that appears to have broken just about every other law in the books?

Where did anyone imply in this thread whether or not Sword of Truth was trusting of the George W. Bush administration?

 

[BeAChooser]

At least we know that Bush's wars have leads to hundreds of thousands of deaths

Hundreds of thousands would have died in any event. Before the invasion, liberals were complaining that thousands of innocent men, women and children were dying in Iraq every month. And the UN and WHO agreed. So in 6 years, hundreds of thousands would now be dead, and they'd probably still be dying at that right. But they aren't dying at that rate now.

 

[BeAChooser]

Obviously he was killed by professor plum in the library with the candlestick.....

I see you think you're a better pathologist than all the pathologists who have made public statements about the Brown death (and that includes the military pathologists at AFIP who examined Brown's body).

 

[Allen773]

Just curious BeAChooser..what exactly do you think starting this thread will accomplish? Do you want to see Clinton arrested?

 

[Darth Rotor]

http://in.news.yahoo.com/48/20090123/1246/twl-us-appoints-holbrooke-as-special-env.html

Ah yes ... change. Yet another Clinton lackey finds a spot in Obama's new and improved, transparent, hope-filled administration.

Let's see what sort of special envoy you will get.

For those who don't know, Holbrooke openly boasts it was his idea to send Ron Brown on a trade mission to Bosnia ... the one on which Brown died under less than *transparent* circumstances. (Remember, Brown was under investigation for conducting trade missions in which seats were sold in exchange for campaign contributions and Brown had apparently informed the Whitehouse that he was going to turn state's evidence about that and other matters just before he died).

If you'd have left the Ron Brown harangue out of it, an accidental plane crash on a mission to try and stimulate business in a war torn country, your post might have been a bit more on topic and coherent.

Holbrooke was indeed a fan of Bosnia intervention, which W's dad was perceptive enough not to be. What is interesting is that, by 1995, and the decision to choose sides in the summer and fall, a way to get a peace deal agreed that actual peacekeepers could implement, unlike the unsuccessful UN peacekeeping attempts for a few years prior, lay the seeds for an idiotic intervention four years later in which NO US national interest was involved.

Put another way, since when are Albanians a US national interest?

*crickets chirp*

FWIW, I am not convinced Holbrooke has any magic wand he can wave at India and Pakistan that will make any substantive change. I don't mind him trying, but I have no confidence in his odds for success. Our leverage there is limited.

DR

 

[BeAChooser]

Just curious BeAChooser..what exactly do you think starting this thread will accomplish?

Well I was hoping we might have a discussion of Holbrooke and whether he epitomizes that *change* that Obama promised all of you.

 

[BeAChooser]

an accidental plane crash

Ah yes ... you believe it to be an accident because the Clinton administration published a report saying it was an accident?

How do you explain the fact that report left out all the concern expressed by pathologists who were there that there might be a bullet in Brown's head and he should be autopsied?

How do you explain the fact that all the pathologists who have made public statements on this matter (except the head of AFIP who one can prove is a liar where the evidence is concerned) said Brown should have been autopsied because he had what certainly looked like a bullet wound in his head? And that includes the pathologist who examined the body and concluded (for reasons that he now admits are mistaken) that Brown died by blunt force trauma?

How do you explain the fact that the photos and x-rays of that wound disappeared from a locked safe at AFIP that only a few people had access to (we only know about them because a photographer happened to take pictures of them when they were on a light panel and those pictures didn't disappear because they were on the internet before the Clinton administration could react).

Just citing some facts here and awaiting your rational explanation, DR.

Put another way, since when are Albanians a US national interest?

They are now.

FWIW, I am not convinced Holbrooke has any magic wand he can wave at India and Pakistan that will make any substantive change. I don't mind him trying, but I have no confidence in his odds for success. Our leverage there is limited.

Maybe we should intervene?