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HITLER-a believer in god?

citytom

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citytom
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Jan 23, 2002
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I have a righteous Christian friend who tells me that "Hitler could not have believed in God!". I'm aware that he referred to "the Lord" in Mein Kampf, but don't have any other ammo. Anyone know of any other citations, evidence, etc.?
Help!
 
Who cares what Hitler believed? In the end, he wanted to control and was motivated by hate. I don't think that religious people have a monopoly on control or hate. Some are really good at hating and trying to control, but so are many other folks.

Hitler was a terrible human, manipulating his followers to carry out unspeakable acts against humanity.

If he were a Christian, or an atheist, it is of little significance in my mind. I can show countless examples of selfless humans who consider themselves one or the other.

Just my opinion.

Take care,

Sort:)
 
citytom said:
I have a righteous Christian friend who tells me that "Hitler could not have believed in God!". I'm aware that he referred to "the Lord" in Mein Kampf, but don't have any other ammo. Anyone know of any other citations, evidence, etc.?
Help!
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This suggests you could use even more ammo regarding: "evil person = cannot believe in God "..


Have you discussed the apparent evil behaviour of God in the Old Testament?
 
Yahzi,

Interesting link - I've never read that before. I found this little morsel particularly insightful :
For this year, which we Christians write as the year 1542 since the birth of Christ, is exactly 1,468 years, going on fifteen hundred years, since Vespasian and Titus destroyed Jerusalem and expelled the Jews from the city. Let the Jews bite on this nut and dispute this question as long as they wish.

For such ruthless wrath of God is sufficient evidence that they assuredly have erred and gone astray. Even a child can comprehend this. For one dare not regard God as so cruel that he would punish his own people so long, so terribly, so unmercifully, and in addition keep silent, comforting them neither with words nor with deeds, and fixing no time limit and no end to it. Who would have faith, hope, or love toward such a God? Therefore this work of wrath is proof that the Jews, surely rejected by God, are no longer his people, and neither is he any longer their God.
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So Luther considered 1500 years of "comforting them neither with words nor with deeds" as proof that the Jews were not god's any longer. I wonder exactly how many "comforting words or deeds" have been directed from god to the various christian faiths in the past 2000 years? None, that I recall off-hand. Clearly, christians are no longer His people. As Luther says "Even a child can comprehend this."
 
Hitler was a terrible human, manipulating his followers to carry out unspeakable acts against humanity.

[/B]
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I think you're stretching the definition of 'manipulate'.
 
"comforting them neither with words nor with deeds"
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The Xians have their comfort from God. They have the Jews to kick around. :p

It's amazing how many people are utterly unaware of this document. What the hell is school for, if it doesn't make people read stuff like this?
 
Hitler had about three motivators: patriotism, religion, and insanity. I've read Mein Kamph, and it looks like his hatred of the Jews is just part of his religious fervor.
 
c4ts said:
Hitler had about three motivators: patriotism, religion, and insanity. I've read Mein Kamph, and it looks like his hatred of the Jews is just part of his religious fervor.
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Patriotism? I think a more accurate word would be "nationalism".

How do you define "insane"? Presumably, tens of millions of Germans thought him quite "sane".

Calling him insane helps us to believe we're not capable of the same time of behaviour.

In any case, he was driven by a desire for power. A quite rational motivation in my opinion.
 
LucyR said:


Patriotism? I think a more accurate word would be "nationalism".

How do you define "insane"? Presumably, tens of millions of Germans thought him quite "sane".

Calling him insane helps us to believe we're not capable of the same time of behaviour.

In any case, he was driven by a desire for power. A quite rational motivation in my opinion.
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He says the Jews are Marxists, and he says all Marxists are atheists, and he even calls the Jews athiests because they are Marxists. If that isn't an example of insanity, then what is it?
 
c4ts said:


He says the Jews are Marxists, and he says all Marxists are atheists, and he even calls the Jews athiests because they are Marxists. If that isn't an example of insanity, then what is it?
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That could come under the heading of ignorance, propaganda, stupidity...etc, but it is in no way a definition of insanity.
 
c4ts said:


http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/

Read it. Then we can talk about whether it's insane or not. It may very well be insane propaganda.
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I have tried to read it but it bored me silly. I'm not saying he was not insane. I'm just curious about your use of the word. How do you personally define it (i.e. in your own words)? This may seem like nitpicking, I know. However, as I said earlier we tend to use the word in a casual way to rationalise behaviour that frightens us.
 
LucyR said:


I have tried to read it but it bored me silly. I'm not saying he was not insane. I'm just curious about your use of the word. How do you personally define it (i.e. in your own words)? This may seem like nitpicking, I know. However, as I said earlier we tend to use the word in a casual way to rationalise behaviour that frightens us.
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Insanity, in this case, would be the inability to make sense in a way that involves complete thought, perception of reality, or both. Don Quixote calling a windmill an evil giant, for example, is insanity. So is Hitler calling a Jew an atheist.
 
c4ts said:


Insanity, in this case, would be the inability to make sense in a way that involves complete thought, perception of reality, or both.
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I do this on a daily basis. I suspect you do too.

"complete thought"?
 
citytom said:
I have a righteous Christian friend who tells me that "Hitler could not have believed in God!". I'm aware that he referred to "the Lord" in Mein Kampf, but don't have any other ammo. Anyone know of any other citations, evidence, etc.?
Help!
Click to expand...
Hitler was raised a Catholic, and apparently did believe in god when he was a child.

Later in life he appears to have grown hostile to Catholicism, although he continued to pay lip service to it. (He remained a nominal Catholic throughout his life -- he never officially left the Church, and the Church never officially kicked him out.)

Hitler used religious rhetoric in his rise to power. He came to power by denouncing leftists, liberals, feminists, atheists, homosexuals, etc. -- appealing, in essence, to the Christian Coalition of his time. Whether he still believed in god or not, many of the people who brought him to power did and believed he did.

The question your friend raises is not so much "Did Hitler believe in God?" as "Could Hitler have believed in God?" The first is hard to answer (although there is a discussion going on about this in the thread OdderMensch linked to, above). The second, however, is much easier.

Yes, Hitler could have believed in god. During his lifetime, people had no trouble believing Hitler was a believer in god, and this included his supporters as well as his opponents. People who believe in gods have, throughout history, done horrible things, so the fact Hitler did horrible things tells us little about his belief or disbelief.
 
LucyR said:


I do this on a daily basis. I suspect you do too.

"complete thought"?
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And the rest as well?

Try not to let one part compromise the entire thing.
 
c4ts said:

...Don Quixote calling a windmill an evil giant, for example, is insanity. So is Hitler calling a Jew an atheist.
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The term "Jew" has various different meanings.

(a) It can mean Jewish in the religious sense -- a believer in Judaism.

(b) It can mean Jewish in the "racial" sense -- a person born of a Jewish mother.

(c) It can mean Jewish in the cultural sense -- a person raised in the Jewish community.

A person can be born of Jewish parents and be an active member of the Jewish community, but not believe in god. It is thus possible to refer to "agnostic Jews" or "atheistic Jews" without being insane.
 
SortingItAllOut said:

Hitler was a terrible human, manipulating his followers to carry out unspeakable acts against humanity.

If he were a Christian, or an atheist, it is of little significance in my mind. I can show countless examples of selfless humans who consider themselves one or the other.
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Excellent point, Sort.

Hitler was a psychotic b@stard first and foremost. As such, he's good example of neither theists nor atheists, since being a psychotic b@stard is not a trait of being a theist or atheist.

That's like saying Charlie Manson is a good example of men who wear beards.
 
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