Hitchens, P&T, Randi, and Shermer

[KingMerv00]

Skepticism can be approached in many ways. I attendedTAM3, it was interesting to see the different attitudes of the speakers.


Chistopher Hitchens: He is very straight forward and honest about feelings toward superstition. It seems that he has no respect at all for magical thinking and is prepared to attack anyone, anywhere, anytime with guns blazing.


Penn, Teller and James Randi: They are slightly more forgiving of religion and woo. They joke and are willing to call people "A-holes" but usually only do so when they feel personal freedoms are infringed upon or when innocent people are the victims of fraud.


Michael Shermer: Usually very relaxed. Responds to superstition with a laugh and a self-effacing remark (to see what I mean watch the Hovind/Shermer creation debate). He is certainly a skeptic but I have never heard him call use insulting names or get angry. I suspect his attitude is the result of being a born-again Christian in his early years.


Which skeptic do you most relate to?

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

I'll go Randiesque when it seems appropriate, but usually am a bit more Shermeresque. I thought Hitchens was somewhat unpleasant.

~~ Paul

 

[Phrost]

I aspire to be like Shermer, but end up being somewhere between P&T (personal heroes of mine) and Buzz Aldrin as seen in my avatar responding to a woo. I guess that would make me somewhere along the lines of Mr. Randi himself.

Of course, a large part of that punching business has to do with my work expanding skepticism in the Martial Arts.

 

[Nucular]

I think scepticism benefits from having all types of people; personally, I prefer the Shermeresque relaxed stance - I really like Richard Wiseman and the fact that he'll work with believing researchers very easily, genuinely looking, if not expecting to find.

Sometimes I find patience runs out a little, but I can usually be fairly relaxed when discussing these things - I think that's how real changes in people's points of view can be made, if they're genuine in their beliefs: polite disagreement and acknowledgement of any worth in their arguments are much less likely to make people stick in the mud.

 

[Huh-What?]

I am more like Shermer, but I am a closet Penn.

Although I can admire Hitchens. Afterall, it just seems that the only time you can get through to some people is by being rude.

 

[crimresearch]

I 'll go with the Hitchens approach... there are plenty of 'diplomats' already.

 

[El_Spectre]

I'm closer to Hitchens (I speak my mind very freely), though I admire Shermer's approach very much.

 

[Ladewig]

Penn, Teller
...They are slightly more forgiving of religion and woo. They joke and are willing to call people "A-holes" but usually only do so when they feel personal freedoms are infringed upon or when innocent people are the victims of fraud.

Perhaps I misunderstood their position. I thought they viewed all religion as fraud. Are they really forgiving of religion?

 

[Phrost]

I was under the impression that they were only being a bit less heavy-handed with Religion simply so as to not alienate 85% of the people who'd watch their show.

 

[KingMerv00]

Re: Re: Hitchens, P&T, Randi, and Shermer

Perhaps I misunderstood their position. I thought they viewed all religion as fraud. Are they really forgiving of religion?

They are stone cold atheists, yes. However in their "Bible" episode (season 2) they made it clear that religious belief based entirely on faith does not bother them too much. They seem to get angry when the pious claim that have evidence for their belief or when the religious leaders try to create theocratic laws or impose upon science.

Furthermore, they are commited Libertarians. I could see P&T defending Falwell's freedom of speech in certain situations. Can anyone really imagine Hitchens doing the same?

 

[Open Mind]

Which skeptic do you most relate to?

None of these. To me, scepticism means doubt. The one thing they all have in common is a lack of doubt.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Hitchens sounds like my kind of guy. He probably would defend freedom of speech, even from televangelists.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Re: Re: Hitchens, P&T, Randi, and Shermer

None of these. To me, scepticism means doubt. The one thing they all have in common is a lack of doubt.

Oh, I doubt that.

 

[Walter Wayne]

I'm closer to Hitchens (I speak my mind very freely), though I admire Shermer's approach very much.

De-rail, but do you think the Shermer doesn't speak his mind freely?

My impression is that he is very honest about his opinions.

Walt

 

[El_Spectre]

De-rail, but do you think the Shermer doesn't speak his mind freely?

My impression is that he is very honest about his opinions.

Walt

No, that's not what I meant. He IS both honest and tactful, something I fail at fairly frequently.

I'm lucky enough to live close enough to go to the Skeptics Society meetings and have met the man a number of times. Nice, smart guy.