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Hitchens on Christmas

Pope130 said:
Ah, one of my favorite pet peeves has surfaced. "Christians complaining about the secularization of their major holiday." My reaction is; if they don't want outsiders messing with their holiday, they should keep it to themselves.
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I never thought of it that way but I like it. After all, I've never heard of the Jews complaining about the secularization of Roshashanna.
 
Wait a second?

Christmas is abot Jesus?

When did that happen?

Stupid religion ruins everything. Not even the sanctity of Christmas is free. Dammit!
 
epepke said:
We in the US also call it "Yule." And "Yuletide" and the "Yuletide Season."

Fundamentalist Christians just have a bug up their collective asses.
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Ahh, but here, jul/yule is not only the mainstream word for 'christmas', it's the only word we have for 'christmas'. Even our local Christian fundamentalists call it that.
 
I've read that christmas didn't become this social monstrosity until about 150 years ago. Before then many christians didn't even observe the holiday because it seemed too pagan to them. Maybe conservatives should take the lead in bringing back the understated christmas known by our Founding Fathers.
 
Ryokan said:
Ahh, but here, jul/yule is not only the mainstream word for 'christmas', it's the only word we have for 'christmas'. Even our local Christian fundamentalists call it that.
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OK, but we have a lot of words in English. We have to find a use for some of them.

A German friend once told me, "You have a lot of words for angst!" I told her, "Yes, and they weren't enough, so we use 'angst' too."
 
When I think about it, several religions have holidays at about the same time as Chistmas. This pagan tradition here in Scandinavia, Hanukkah in Judaism, and so on. I think that's why it got so popular - most people who were converted to Christianity already celebrated something this time of the year, so they just went on as usual. With a few added nativity scenes, of course. Which means a lot of people who aren't Christians celebrate for other reasons. I think we should stick to our own reasons but still celebrate together. Sounds nice.
 
clarsct said:
Hell, the British tried to outlaw Christmas based on its immorality.
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As did the American Puritans:

"For preventing disorders, arising in several places within this jurisdiction by reason of some still observing such festivals as were superstitiously kept in other communities, to the great dishonor of God and offense of others: it is therefore ordered by this court and the authority thereof that whosoever shall be found observing any such day as Christmas or the like, either by forbearing of labor, feasting, or any other way, upon any such account as aforesaid, every such person so offending shall pay for every such offence five shilling as a fine to the county."

--- From the records of the General Court, Massachusetts Bay Colony, May 11, 1659.

More here
 
It gets better.

"At anchor in Plymouth harbor; Christmas Day, but not observed by these colonists, they being opposed to all saints’ days….A large party went ashore this morning to fell timber and begin building. They began to erect the first house about twenty feet square for their common use, to receive them and their goods….No man rested all that day."

--- Ship's log of the Mayflower.

Calling all American fundies: the Pilgrim Fathers did not keep Christmas.
 
So many conservatives get upset over someone saying "Happy Holidays".

They then proceed to rip Newdow a new one for being upset over "In God We Trust".
 
I loved this part:

Let's bring a little light to this, instead of all heat. Let's bring a little light to this conversation and talk about trends.
HITCHENS: Light only comes from heat.
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And there was this part
SCARBOROUGH: Well, Christopher, why don't you let other people talk for a second, OK?

HITCHENS: I came here to talk, not to listen to you. You invited me on for my opinions, not to listen to yours.
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Not getting that invitation to return, however...
 
My favourite:

I would like the city to call to rename it and call it a regular Christmas tree. I believe that's what our country was founded on.
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Our country was founded on Christmas trees?
 
Maybe we should rename it a "slavery tree" since America was founded on that as well.

G_d I hate the "founding fathers" fallacy.
 
At some time, I wish someone would ask them to explain what a decorated tree has to do with Jesus's birthday, anyway?

See if they can explain it with anything other than, "It's traditional..."
 
KingMerv00 said:
So many conservatives get upset over someone saying "Happy Holidays".

They then proceed to rip Newdow a new one for being upset over "In God We Trust".
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The whole part about getting upset over Happy Holidays really reveals the true colors.

It's one thing to complain that you aren't allowed to say "Merry Christmas." I don't know any case where it is true, but that's one thing. It's another to complain that _someone else_ is NOT wishing a Merry Christmas.

IOW, it's not good enough for them that they are allowed to wish Merry Christmas, they insist that everyone has to do it, too, including private businesses.
 
Actually, there was a Liberty Tree at St. John's that was filled with fireworks and blown up on the 4th of July.

I wish Christmas trees were for that, instead of p***y little lights and ornaments. Christmas would be 10 times better if you exchanged presents and got to blow stuff up. Then again, Chinese New Year works for me.

Now all I have to do is work that into a nativity scene for a religion I just made up.

Apparently the religion is based on my little brother's old toys. Mostly Battletech action figures because he had a collection back in the late 90's. So far the scene goes like this:

My God was born in a gigantic wooden box with the word "grapefruit" on it. On his left is his mother, Ripley from the movie "Alien" in the Power Loader, and on the right is his father, Dr. Piranha. Then we also have the three wise men: Elemental Armor, Axeman, and Mauler, who come bearing gifts of marshmallows, glue, and lego bricks. (And since we are going for historical accuracy, the Mauler is piloted by the Jesus action figure I bought at Wal-Mart while trying very hard not to laugh.) Now my religion forbids me from depicting my god, so to depict his abstract glory I have assembled this here pile of illegal fireworks. To celebrate this momentous occasion, I light this- ◊◊◊◊! ◊◊◊◊! GET BACK EVERYONE!
 
Marquis de Carabas said:
Our country was founded on Christmas trees?
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Well, not exactly:

"The Christmas tree first made its appearance in America in the middle of the 18th century, thanks to German immigrants. But a hundred years later it was still rare. In 1851 a Cleveland, Ohio reverend who had recently emigrated from Germany put up a Christmas tree in his local church. He was roundly condemned. Nobody before had ever put up a Christmas tree in an American church. Victorians in the latter half of the 19th century slowly began adopting the German tradition, but the Christmas tree remained controversial. In the 1880s the New York Times editorialized against the Christmas tree. When Teddy Roosevelt became president he denounced the practice of cutting down trees for Christmas. Good conservationist that he was, he declared the practice a waste of timber."

More here
 
pgwenthold said:
The whole part about getting upset over Happy Holidays really reveals the true colors.

It's one thing to complain that you aren't allowed to say "Merry Christmas." I don't know any case where it is true, but that's one thing. It's another to complain that _someone else_ is NOT wishing a Merry Christmas.

IOW, it's not good enough for them that they are allowed to wish Merry Christmas, they insist that everyone has to do it, too, including private businesses.
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Has anyone come up with an atheist version of "Merry Christmas"?

I feel I should start wishing people a "Super Solstice" and see if it bothers them. In the name of science of course.
 
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