Historical Jesus

[dejudge]

People who are known to have really existed - evidence is available
Pontius Pilate (fifth governor of the Roman province of Judaea)
Publius Sulpicius Quirinius (Governor of Syria)
Simon Peter (Bishop of Rome)
Herod the Great (King of Judea)
Herod Antipas (Tetrarch of Galilee and Perea)
Herod Archelaus (Ethnarch of Judea, Samaria and Edom)
Joseph ben Caiaphas (High Priest of Israel)
Augustus Caesar (Emperor of Rome)

Places that are known to have existed
Jerusalem
Galilee,
Nazareth
Magdala
Bethlehem
Meggido
Machaerus

As I expected, Jesus, the disciples and Paul are missing from your list of known persons to have existed.

By the way, it is simply fiction that there is evidence for Simon Peter [bishop of Rome].

Contemporary non-apologetic writings did not mention any character called Peter, Simon or Simon Peter at anytime, anywhere at all.

Not even in the supposed Epistle of Peter does the author claim to be a bishop of anywhere.

Simon Peter was a fabricated bishop of Rome invented no earlier than the 2nd century.

Please stop your propaganda. You very well ought to know there is absolutely no available evidence for all NT disciples/apostles.

 

[dejudge]

Well Apollonius was a contemporary of NT Jesus. His dates are 15 CE to 100CE. He was believed to perform wonders and miracles and was frequently compared to the Jewish sage and “miracle worker” Jesus of Nazareth.

Do you understand English?

NT Jesus did not exist so if Apollonius actually lived 15CE to 100 CE he could not have been the contemporary of a non-existing character.

Apollonius could have been a contemporary of Pilate, John the Baptist, Felix, Festus, Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonius, Pliny the younger, Pliny the Elder, Plutarch, Claudius, Nero, Vepasian, Nero, Trajan and others.

So, presumably Paul and Peter actually existed if they were considered liars, despite your claims to the contrary.

A writer from around c 300 CE is not an historical witness for Jesus, the disciples and Paul.

This is simply a bald assertion totally unsupported by fact. There are numerous competent biblical scholars. Their overwhelming consensus is that Jesus the man existed (as opposed to the miracle-working god/man). And of the thirteen books of the New Testament attributed to Paul, seven of them are authentic.

What is your problem facing facts?

You don't know the difference between opinion and facts,

Claims about about overwhelming consensus is absolutely worthless as historical evidence.

You have no idea how many scholars in Asia, Europe, the Middle East, Africa, and Australia are now arguing and have argued that Jesus did not exist.

Please, your chinese whispers propaganda is a complete waste of time.

Just provide the corroborative historical evidence for a single Pauline letter.

You will never ever do so.

All the Pauline letters are without historical corroboration in and out the NT.

All the Pauline letters must have been composed after at least 175 CE or after the writing of True Discourse attributed to Celsus.

 

[ahhell]

You don't know the difference between opinion and facts,

You don't seem to know the difference between evidence and bald assertion.
Repeating yourself and calling everyone else ignorant is not evidence.

Claims about about overwhelming consensus is absolutely worthless as historical evidence.

You have no idea how many scholars in Asia, Europe, the Middle East, Africa, and Australia are now arguing and have argued that Jesus did not exist.

And you seem to have no idea how many scholars in Asia, Europe, the Middle East, Africa, and Australia have and continue to dismiss the notion. The overwhelming majority of experts on the period think Jesus was a real person. The scholarly consensus is more certain about it than I.

There is evidence that christ existed. Dozens of biographies that you dismiss on account of being from partisans. A few references in non christian sources that you dismis as irrelevant or false or talking about someone that most experts on the matter think are referencing the Jesus of the Bible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory#Scholarly_reception
From wiki:

The "argument of silence" is to be rejected, because "it is wrong to suppose that what is unmentioned or undetailed did not exist." Van Voorst further argues that the early Christian literature was not written for historical purposes.
Dating the "invention" of Jesus around 100 CE is too late; Mark was written earlier, and contains abundant historical details which are correct.
The argument that the development of the Gospel traditions shows that there was no historical Jesus is incorrect; "development does not prove wholesale invention, and difficulties do not prove invention."
Wells cannot explain why "no pagans and Jews who opposed Christianity denied Jesus' historicity or even questioned it."
The rejection of Tacitus and Josephus ignores the scholarly consensus.
Proponents of the "Nonexistence Hypothesis" are not driven by scholarly interests, but by anti-Christian sentiments.
Wells and others do not offer alternative "other, credible hypotheses" for the origins of Christianity.
"

The first line is most relevant as it seems to be the entirety of dejudge's argument. Well, that and insults.

I am curious about a few things.

dejudge,

Why aren't there any early examples of anti-christian writer's telling us that Jesus didn't exist as a human? Why are there so many biographies of a man who didn't exist? What is the source of this myth?

 

[dejudge]

This. So, here's the thing.
dejudge his making a few errors repeatedly.
Those expressing lack of certainty are actually more familiar with the evidence than he is, we are not admitting they don't know anything. We know enough to realize, certainty is unwarranted. I'm of the opinion that a preacher named jesus probably existed and his followers created a religion around him. It appears to be nothing like what he meant it to be. Most seem to think that if such a preacher existed, he was so far removed from what we've been told as to not really be the same character.

I have no reasonable doubt, based on the existing evidence, that Jesus, the disciples and Paul were all fiction characters -they never ever existed.

Claiming that because the NT stories can not be literally true in all respects means the are there fore false in all respects. Like saying George Washington couldn't be real because he didn't actually cut down a cherry tree and also, the biographer who originally made that claim wasn't real either.

I have no reasonable doubt, based on the existing evidence, that the NT stories of Jesus, the disciples and Paul are fiction in all respects.

So, the thing is, christianity and therefore Jesus just weren't that important for the first hundred years or so after he would have died. Its not surprising that almost nobody but christians wrote about him. Just one of many cults in the empire at the time. We don't know much about most of them.

Your Jesus story is fiction. You made it up. You have no historical evidence at at all to show that Jesus existed and was not important in the time of Pilate. By the way, Some people here are claiming that some character called Paul wrote letters to Churches in the Roman Empire about Jesus since c 50 CE so your "hundred year later" story would not make any sense to them.

Dejudge, did the Buddha actually exist?

Did Romulus and Remus exist? They were born of a Ghost and a Virgin.

Right now I am dealing with the debate on the Historical Jesus.

I am debating, based on the existing evidence, that Jesus was not a figure of history which means that his disciples and Paul were also made up.

The existence/non-existence of Buddha cannot determine whether or not NT Jesus existed.

 

[Delvo]

You agree NT Jesus, the disciples and Paul did not literally exist but you can't prove it.

If NT Jesus did not exist please tell us what is true in the NT

As I expected, Jesus, the disciples and Paul are missing from your list of known persons to have existed.

Holy wow. dejudge not only doesn't listen to anybody else, (s)he also doesn't even listen to dejudge!

 

[pgwenthold]

.

weary = tired, fatigued (as in, it's been wearing you down)

wary = cautious, unsure (as in, beware)

"Oh they get woolly. Young girls they do get woolly. Cause they got stress, yes." - Nuke LaLoosh, Bull Durham

 

[dejudge]

You don't seem to know the difference between evidence and bald assertion.

This is a partial list of the existing evidence that Jesus, the disciples and Paul are fiction.

1. the NT claims Jesus was born of a ghost and a virgin.
2. the NT claims Jesus was with the devil of the pinnacle of the Jewish Temple.
3. The NT claims Jesus and the devil were on a mountain.
4. The NT claims Jesus walked for miles on water.
5. The NT claims Jesus instantly made the blind see, the deaf hear and the dumb talk.
6. The NT claims Jesus raised the rotting body of Lazarus back to life.
7. The NT claims Jesus fed thousands of people with a few loaves and fish.
8. The NT claims Jesus transfigured in the presence of his disciples.
9. The NT claims Jesus attached the ear of a person after it was cut off.
10. The NT claims Jesus resurrected on the third day.
11. The NT claims the resurrected Jesus visited his disciples by walking through closed doors.
12. The NT claims the resurrected Jesus cooked and ate food at a "beach party" with his disciples.
13. The NT claims the resurrected Jesus ascended on cloud in the presence of his disciples.
14. The NT claims Saul/Paul was blinded by a bright light and heard the voice of Jesus.
15. The NT claims scales fell from Saul/Paul's eyes when his sight was restored.
16. The NT claims Paul did not get his Gospel from a man.
17. The NT claims Paul heard from the resurrected Jesus.
18. The NT claims Paul was a witness that God raised Jesus from the dead.

And you seem to have no idea how many scholars in Asia, Europe, the Middle East, Africa, and Australia have and continue to dismiss the notion. The overwhelming majority of experts on the period think Jesus was a real person. The scholarly consensus is more certain about it than I.

You don't know the difference between opinion and evidence.

You repeat chinese whsipers propaganda about "overwhelming majority of experts" without knowing the facts.

There is evidence that christ existed. Dozens of biographies that you dismiss on account of being from partisans. A few references in non christian sources that you dismis as irrelevant or false or talking about someone that most experts on the matter think are referencing the Jesus of the Bible.

Your claim is utterly false. Contemporary Non apologetics did not write a single word about the character called Jesus of Nazareth who supposedly lived in the time of Pilate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory#Scholarly_reception
From wiki:
The first line is most relevant as it seems to be the entirety of dejudge's argument. Well, that and insults.

You must, must use the argument from silence for your "unimportant" Jesus story.

No NT writings claimed Jesus was unimportant so you invented your Jesus directly from the argument of silence.

dejudge,

Why aren't there any early examples of anti-christian writer's telling us that Jesus didn't exist as a human? Why are there so many biographies of a man who didn't exist? What is the source of this myth?

What absurd questions?

1. There were no contemporary anti-christian writers who wrote about Jesus.
.
2. The biographies of Jesus state he was a water walking, transfiguring, resurrecting son of a Ghost.

3. NT and apologetic writings.

 

[ahhell]

This is a partial list of the existing evidence that Jesus, the disciples and Paul are fiction.

1. the NT claims Jesus was born of a ghost and a virgin.
2. the NT claims Jesus was with the devil of the pinnacle of the Jewish Temple.
3. The NT claims Jesus and the devil were on a mountain.
4. The NT claims Jesus walked for miles on water.
5. The NT claims Jesus instantly made the blind see, the deaf hear and the dumb talk.
6. The NT claims Jesus raised the rotting body of Lazarus back to life.
7. The NT claims Jesus fed thousands of people with a few loaves and fish.
8. The NT claims Jesus transfigured in the presence of his disciples.
9. The NT claims Jesus attached the ear of a person after it was cut off.
10. The NT claims Jesus resurrected on the third day.
11. The NT claims the resurrected Jesus visited his disciples by walking through closed doors.
12. The NT claims the resurrected Jesus cooked and ate food at a "beach party" with his disciples.
13. The NT claims the resurrected Jesus ascended on cloud in the presence of his disciples.
14. The NT claims Saul/Paul was blinded by a bright light and heard the voice of Jesus.
15. The NT claims scales fell from Saul/Paul's eyes when his sight was restored.
16. The NT claims Paul did not get his Gospel from a man.
17. The NT claims Paul heard from the resurrected Jesus.
18. The NT claims Paul was a witness that God raised Jesus from the dead.

Still just assertion and not actually evidence. The lack of WMDs in Iraq is not evidence that Saddam Hussein never existed.

You don't know the difference between opinion and evidence.

You repeat chinese whsipers propaganda about "overwhelming majority of experts" without knowing the facts.

Apparently neither did you. Did you forget that accused us of not knowing how many experts think christ was a myth?

Your claim is utterly false. Contemporary Non apologetics did not write a single word about the character called Jesus of Nazareth who supposedly lived in the time of Pilate.

You seem to have an issue with reading. I did not say contemporary, I said early. There were numerous anti-christian writers in the first few centuries after christ died. They accuse christians and christ of all sorts of things. None of the early writers suggest that he didn't exist. Why not, if he truly didn't?

You must, must use the argument from silence for your "unimportant" Jesus story.

No NT writings claimed Jesus was unimportant so you invented your Jesus directly from the argument of silence.

A silly rebut, but it does prove my point. The lack of contemporary writing about Jesus is just as easily explained by Jesus being relatively unimportant or not being real. Its just that obscurity is the more parsimonious explanation. Your certainty is foolish.

What absurd questions?

1. There were no contemporary anti-christian writers who wrote about Jesus.
.
2. The biographies of Jesus state he was a water walking, transfiguring, resurrecting son of a Ghost.

3. NT and apologetic writings.

 

[HansMustermann]

This is a partial list of the existing evidence that Jesus, the disciples and Paul are fiction.

1. the NT claims Jesus was born of a ghost and a virgin.
2. the NT claims Jesus was with the devil of the pinnacle of the Jewish Temple.
3. The NT claims Jesus and the devil were on a mountain.
4. The NT claims Jesus walked for miles on water.
5. The NT claims Jesus instantly made the blind see, the deaf hear and the dumb talk.
6. The NT claims Jesus raised the rotting body of Lazarus back to life.
7. The NT claims Jesus fed thousands of people with a few loaves and fish.
8. The NT claims Jesus transfigured in the presence of his disciples.
9. The NT claims Jesus attached the ear of a person after it was cut off.
10. The NT claims Jesus resurrected on the third day.
11. The NT claims the resurrected Jesus visited his disciples by walking through closed doors.
12. The NT claims the resurrected Jesus cooked and ate food at a "beach party" with his disciples.
13. The NT claims the resurrected Jesus ascended on cloud in the presence of his disciples.

Yet you could write a longer list of even more ridiculous claims for Apollonius, including seeing stuff from a thousand miles away, teleportation, and a few other stuff that tops anything ever ascribed to Jesus. And some are the same: he too ascended bodily to heavens in the presence of his disciples for example. And again, he tops even the conception part, by being 2/3 divine: his mom conceived him with TWO gods. Etc.

Yet the general consensus is that it's based on a real guy.

So your criteria don't really work.

 

[Kapyong]

There were numerous anti-christian writers in the first few centuries after christ died. They accuse christians and christ of all sorts of things. None of the early writers suggest that he didn't exist.

Really ?

Celsus, in late 2nd century, attacked the Gospels as fiction based on myths :

"Clearly the christians have used...myths... in fabricating the story of Jesus' birth...It is clear to me that the writings of the christians are a lie and that your fables are not well-enough constructed to conceal this monstrous fiction"​

Porphyry, in late 3rd century, claimed the Gospels were invented :

"... the evangelists were inventors – not historians”​

Julian, in the 4th century, claimed Jesus was spurious, counterfeit, invented :

"why do you worship this spurious son...a counterfeit son", "you have invented your new kind of sacrifice ".​

Julian was

“convinced that the fabrication of the Galilaeans is a fiction of men composed by wickedness.. ”​

Tatian, in later 2nd century, compared Christianity with pagan mythology and wrote:

“Compare you own stories with our narratives. Take a look at your own records and accept us merely on the grounds that we too tell stories”​

Furthermore, numerous Christian writers denied Jesus ever came in the flesh (which clearly strikes AGAINST the idea that Jesus was a historical person) :

2 John warns of those who don't

"acknowledge the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh".​

Polycarp's epistle refers to those who do not agree Jesus came in the flesh :

"For whosoever does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, is antichrist"​

Marcion, in mid 2nd century, claimed Jesus was a phantom or spiritual entity :

“...they deny ... His humanity, and teach that His appearances to those who saw Him as man were illusory, inasmuch as He did not bear with Him true manhood, but was rather a kind of phantom manifestation. Of this class are, for example, Marcion...”​

In short -
there WERE various early doubts about Jesus, even from Christians. Faithful Christians now are usually unaware of them.

Kapyong

 

[abaddon]

As I expected, Jesus, the disciples and Paul are missing from your list of known persons to have existed.

By the way, it is simply fiction that there is evidence for Simon Peter [bishop of Rome].

Contemporary non-apologetic writings did not mention any character called Peter, Simon or Simon Peter at anytime, anywhere at all.

Not even in the supposed Epistle of Peter does the author claim to be a bishop of anywhere.

Simon Peter was a fabricated bishop of Rome invented no earlier than the 2nd century.

Please stop your propaganda. You very well ought to know there is absolutely no available evidence for all NT disciples/apostles.

So what? Whether they existed or not is irrelevant to me.

But it is very dear to your hearty for some reason.

Care to explain that?

I mean come on. We are short any god botherers here yet somehow, you feel a need to insult all and sundry. Even though none of us give a damn about whatever god.

Why?

 

[HansMustermann]

In short -
there WERE various early doubts about Jesus, even from Christians. Faithful Christians now are usually unaware of them.

Kapyong

I wouldn't call those doubts, tbh. In fact, they believed Jesus to be very much real, or they wouldn't be Christians. They just didn't believe that Jesus was some random dude from Galilee.

This could include stuff that seems compatible with Doherty and Carrier's mythical Jesus, or involve him having only an illusory or constructed body, or it could take the form that the divine part that was Jesus basically possessed and took control of a mortal's body, completely neutralizing and replacing their previous consciousness. See, Monothelitism for example.

None of those really mean having doubts about Jesus. He's still real for them. He's just basically not just some itinerant preacher from Galilee. And indeed shows that such an ingredient doesn't have to be necessary.

 

[dejudge]

Still just assertion and not actually evidence. The lack of WMDs in Iraq is not evidence that Saddam Hussein never existed.

Based on your ridiculous absurdity Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, the God of the Jews, the Devil, demons, Romulus, Remus, the Gods of the Greeks and Romans like the sons of Jupiter existed.

Your analogy is most illogical because Saddam Hussien is a documented historical figure whose birth, life and death is known and recorded.

Jesus, the disciples and Paul are only found in total fiction. forgeries, false attribution and without historical documentation.

Apparently neither did you. Did you forget that accused us of not knowing how many experts think christ was a myth?

You still don't know what you are talking about. You are the one who put forward the propaganda about Scholars.

You seem to have an issue with reading. I did not say contemporary, I said early. There were numerous anti-christian writers in the first few centuries after christ died. They accuse christians and christ of all sorts of things. None of the early writers suggest that he didn't exist.

Early non-christian writer claimed the Jesus stories were fiction. People who lived in the 2nd century are not witnesses of an historical Jesus.

2nd century and later writers suggesting Jesus existed is not evidence of existence.

When Celsus in "True Discourse" claimed Jesus had a human father Origen stated it was a lie and that Jesus was born of a Ghost.

NT Jesus is an undocumented fiction character.

Why not, if he truly didn't? A silly rebut, but it does prove my point. The lack of contemporary writing about Jesus is just as easily explained by Jesus being relatively unimportant or not being real. Its just that obscurity is the more parsimonious explanation. Your certainty is foolish.

Again, you are using an argument from silence. You made up your story because you lack contemporary writing of Jesus.

You think you are smart when You use an argument from silence to make your own fiction character.

May I remind that Jesus was a well known character with thousands of followers and after his resurrection there were thousand of converts in the NT fables.

The NT contains the story of Jesus and it clearly states without contradiction that he was born of a Ghost.

I cannot accept such a story as historically credible. NT Jesus is fiction

I have no interest in your recently made up fiction story that Jesus was un-important.

Your un-important fiction character did not exist.

 

[smartcooky]

As I expected, Jesus, the disciples and Paul are missing from your list of known persons to have existed.

No **** Sherlock! Did you expect me to list them? Oh please tell me you expected me to list them.

Based on your ridiculous absurdity Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, the God of the Jews, the Devil, demons, Romulus, Remus, the Gods of the Greeks and Romans like the sons of Jupiter existed.

Nope. He made no such assertion.

Based on your ridiculous absurdity, I can only conclude that you either didn't actually read what ahhell posted, or you just didn't understand it.

Can you understand that just because an overall narrative is a work of fiction, and contains things that are clearly fiction, it does not mean that EVERYTHING in that narrative is fiction? Is this concept too difficult for you to grasp?

Are you so blinded by your obsessive/compulsive conviction of personal infallibility, that you cannot even comprehend the very idea that other people could have opinions that are valid and reasonable and different from yours?

 

[dejudge]

No **** Sherlock! Did you expect me to list them? Oh please tell me you expected me to list them.

I merely exposed your bogus claim that there is evidence available for Simon Peter [bishop of Rome].

You very knew very well that you were writing fiction.

Simon Peter was a fabricated bishop in 2nd century or later writings unknown and not mentioned by all contemporary non-apologetic writers.

Can you understand that just because an overall narrative is a work of fiction, and contains things that are clearly fiction, it does not mean that EVERYTHING in that narrative is fiction? Is this concept too difficult for you to grasp?

Everything in the NT about Jesus, the disciples and Paul story is fiction? Tell what you know is true in the NT about Jesus, the disciples and Paul?

Are you so blinded by your obsessive/compulsive conviction of personal infallibility, that you cannot even comprehend the very idea that other people could have opinions that are valid and reasonable and different from yours?

Your claim is fiction. I have never ever stated anywhere at anytime that I am infallible.

I am arguing, based on the existing evidence, I have no reasonable doubt that Jesus, the disciples and Paul are all fiction characters which never ever existed at anytime anywhere and all the NT authors are unknown fraudsters who composed their fables in the 2nd century or later.

It is the evidence that I am dealing with- not your false claim of infallibility.

 

[smartcooky]

I merely exposed your bogus claim that there is evidence available for Simon Peter [bishop of Rome].

Err, that is not all you did!

You very knew very well that you were writing fiction.

Simon Peter was a fabricated bishop in 2nd century or later writings unknown and not mentioned by all contemporary non-apologetic writers.

In your opinion.

There are plenty of other scholarly opinions that differ with you on this.

Everything in the NT about Jesus, the disciples and Paul story is fiction

Once again, no-one here that I know of is disputing that all the supernatural stuff is fiction - born of a ghost and a virgin, walked on water, the miraculous healings, the raising of Lazarus, loaves & bread, the transfiguration, the resurrection, the ascension. Its all fiction.

Once again, you fail to understand that just because an overall narrative is a work of fiction, and contains things that are clearly fiction, it does not mean that EVERYTHING in that narrative is fiction? This appears to be a concept that is simply beyond your capacity to understand.

There were a number of peripatetic preachers who were known to have been wandering the Levant at around the time of Jesus was alleged to have lived. With the evidence we have to hand, the possibility cannot be excluded that these fictional narratives were written from exaggerated and embellished oral traditions handed down by word of mouth, using one or more of these wandering preachers as a basis/source for the mythical Jesus character. You can claim this is wrong. you can believe this is wrong, you can say there is no evidence to support this, but you can't prove its wrong, and because you can't prove it wrong, when you try to say its wrong as a statement of fact, that statement carries zero weight.

 

[dejudge]

Everything in the NT about Jesus, the disciples and Paul story is fiction

Once again, no-one here that I know of is disputing that all the supernatural stuff is fiction - born of a ghost and a virgin, walked on water, the miraculous healings, the raising of Lazarus, loaves & bread, the transfiguration, the resurrection, the ascension. Its all fiction.

Once again, you fail to understand that just because an overall narrative is a work of fiction, and contains things that are clearly fiction, it does not mean that EVERYTHING in that narrative is fiction? This appears to be a concept that is simply beyond your capacity to understand.

Don't you understand English? Don't you understand what everything means?

Everything in the NT, supernatural or not about Jesus the disciples and Paul is fiction- they never ever happened -they were all made up.

1. NT stories of Jesus and the God of the Jews were made up.
2. NT stories of Jesus and prophecies in Hebrew Scripture were made up.
3. NT stories of Jesus and John the Baptist were made up.
4. NT stories of Jesus and the Holy Ghost were made up.
5. NT stories of Jesus and the devil were made up.
6. NT stories of Jesus and the Virgin Mary were made up.
7. NT stories of Jesus and the 12 Apostles were made up.
8. NT stories of Jesus and Sanhedrin were made up.
9. NT stories of Jesus and Pilate were made up.
10. NT stories of Jesus and the resurrection were made up.
11. NT stories of Jesus and post-resurrection visits were made up.
12. NT stories of Jesus and Paul were made up.

There is no truth at all in the NT about Jesus, the disciples and Paul -none whatsoever.

For the "millionth time" If you know any truth in the NT about Jesus, the disciples and Paul please tell me the NT book, chapter and verse?
You will never ever ever be able to do so.

Please stop wasting time.

NT Jesus, the disciples and Paul never ever existed at anytime and anywhere!!!

 

[ahhell]

NT Jesus, the disciples and Paul never ever existed at anytime and anywhere!!!

This is just something that can not be known. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence(though there is actually evidence that you just reject). A negative can not be proven. The very most that can be said is that they either probably did not existed, whatever persons they may have been based on are so different as to not be the same, or they probably existed.

You don't even attempt evidence, all you do is assert opinions as fact and insult people.

 

[dejudge]

This is just something that can not be known. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence(though there is actually evidence that you just reject). A negative can not be proven. The very most that can be said is that they either probably did not existed, whatever persons they may have been based on are so different as to not be the same, or they probably existed.

You don't even attempt evidence, all you do is assert opinions as fact and insult people.

Please stop wasting time!!

You use absence of evidence for your recent fiction story that your Jesus was un-important.

 

[ahhell]

Please stop wasting time!!

You use absence of evidence for your recent fiction story that your Jesus was un-important.

Please note, I have never expressed certainty. I think he probably existed, I could be wrong. You are definitely wrong though. You go so far as to state with certainty that not only did Jesus not exist but neither did his apostles nor Paul. Something virtually no relevant scholars agree with. You also don't seem to demand the same level of evidence for the existence of various other folks from history. Did Boudica exist? How many Chinese Emperors do you believe in? Lao Tzu, Sun Tzu, Confucius, Buddha, Ragnar Lothbruk and his Sons?

A. We have a number of biographies of this Jesus character. That is more evidence of his existence than the vast majority of people that existed prior to about 200 years ago.
B. Get rid of the supernatural elements and the story is actually so mundane as to be boring. So, not at all unlikely. I didn't make anything up, I just deleted the obvious fantasy and whats left is totally possible. I think probable. But again, I admit, it can not truly be known.