Historians: Obama 12th best President

Arcade22

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Folks please note this has been moved to the "History..." section.
Posted By: Darat


Historians have ranked Barack Obama the 12th best president of all time, the highest rated since President Ronald Reagan, in a new C-SPAN survey released Friday.

Less than a month after exiting the White House, Obama received high marks from presidential historians for his pursuit of "equal justice for all" and for his commanding "moral authority," ranking third and seventh among all former presidents in each respective category. The 44th president also cracked a top 10 ranking for his "economic management" and public persuasion.

The former president's tenure earned its lowest marks for the relationship between the presidency and Congress, with bitter partisanship often stagnating the effectiveness between the two and Obama seeing his Democratic majority slip in both the House of Representatives and the Senate during his eight years in office.

Historians, however, remained mixed on whether Obama's standing so soon after leaving office was higher or lower than expected.

"Although 12th is a respectable overall ranking, one would have thought that former President Obama’s favorable rating when he left office would have translated into a higher ranking in this presidential survey," said Edna Greene Medford, a Howard University professor and member of C-SPAN's historical advisory board.

Others, though, felt the former president's performance fresh out of office was remarkable.

"That Obama came in at number 12 his first time out is quite impressive," Douglas Brinkley, a Rice University professor and C-SPAN adviser, said in a press release.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/all-time-best-president-united-states-rankings-235149

Compared to Trump Obama comes off as very moderate and conservative indeed. Despite Republican's trying portray him as being "leftist" or even communist he's clearly on the center-right as seen from European countries.
 
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Is this like the Nobel Peace Prize?

One would have to be incredibly naive to believe this. It actually funny...
 
I'd heard he is ranked fourth:

#1 Washington
#2 Lincoln
#3 All the rest in a tie
#4 Obama.
 
I can understand just how frustrating this is for all the anti-Obama posters on the Forum: Obama leaving office with very high approval ratings, a Nobel Peach Prize (which was, as I see it, awarded to the USA as a whole to recognize the progress his election demonstrated in terms of racial prejudice- at least as we hoped at that time) and now this 12th best consensus by 91 Presidential historians. Must really get one's shorts in a twist!

So what other response might these anti-Obama posters advance except that it is way too early to tell. Predictable, and there is some truth there, although as noted above, Obama's time as president is done. It's over. One can certainly legitimately rank what he has achieved at the end of his term versus what other presidents achieved at the end of theirs. But if we agree that we must wait for "the verdict of history" then how can Obama's critics on this Forum claim that the can legitimately judge him now, and that the 91 historians are wrong? Either everyone must wait many years to be able to offer an accurate judgement, or if a Forum member feels that they can judge him now, then the 91 presidential historians can judge him now as well. It's the Forum member versus the historians. And of course the historians may be incorrect- but please, none of the "verdict of history" stuff from the people who are only to willing to form their own judgements right now.
 
Thinking about Trump some day joining this list, I wonder if the rankings are a linear or logarithmic scale?
 
I can understand just how frustrating this is for all the anti-Obama posters on the Forum: Obama leaving office with very high approval ratings, a Nobel Peach Prize (which was, as I see it, awarded to the USA as a whole to recognize the progress his election demonstrated in terms of racial prejudice- at least as we hoped at that time) and now this 12th best consensus by 91 Presidential historians. ..,..,..

Where is the skepticism of selection bias of those 91 historians? I suspect they are cut from the same cloth as who ever decided to give him a Noble Prize before he even took office.

Though kudos for the way you look at the prize.
 
(which was, as I see it, awarded to the USA as a whole to recognize the progress his election demonstrated in terms of racial prejudice- at least as we hoped at that time)
It was explicitly awarded for his stance on international relations, with the examples being reaching out to the Islamic world during the Cairo speech, expressing strong commitment to nuclear non-proliferation, and vowing to combat climate change.

With all due respect, I think you overestimate both the level of understanding, and concern for, U.S. ethnic tensions that Norwegian political party members have.
 
It's way too early to know where he ranks (for good or Ill).

Pretty much. This is a decision for historians 100 or more years from now. Indeed, the almost certain fawning nature of most of these professors immediately disqualifies them from issuing such pronouncements as surely as some historians who like Fox News would be.

The very fact it is being trumpeted as a political bragging point emphasizes this.


By this standard, we're only just now passing the time when it is ok to make judgements on guys like Wilson and Teddy Roosevelt.
 
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Where is the skepticism of selection bias of those 91 historians? I suspect they are cut from the same cloth as who ever decided to give him a Noble Prize before he even took office.

Though kudos for the way you look at the prize.

Certainly I did consider the possibility that C-SPAN intentionally selected the presidential historians surveyed based on a hypothetical C-SPAN pro-Obama bias. But the more I thought about it the less and less it seemed plausible:

First: it would take an enormous amount of dedicated work and effort in advance for C-SPAN to identify 91 presidential historians with the "desired" bias- they would had to research many additional historians (total of hundreds!) as to their prior publications and public positions so as to specifically exclude the "wrong" historians, etc.. All just to generate a survey that C-Span would know in advance was meaningless and fake. Just as a going-away gift to Obama I presume?

Then, and more importantly, I examined the actual rankings. Ronald Reagan was ranked 9, well above Obama! With Theodore Roosevelt 4, Eisenhower 5, and with Jimmy Carter 26! That hardly looks like a preselected, pro-Democratic, heavily liberal-biased ranking!

Finally, although every visible entity has been accused of political bias at one point or another by one group or another, C-SPAN appears to have been relatively immune to such accusations. It certainly doesn't have a documented history of any such bias.

So yes indeed, I applied my skepticism and reached a different conclusion from what you causally suggested as a possibility (presumably without researching it). Sure it was possible in theory, but turned out not to the the case on more careful examination.

I went even further- given the known reality bias manifested in academia, might 91 historians, even selected randomly, be biased in a liberal direction? Indeed I suspect this is true to some extent (although here again we have the very high ranking of Reagan arguing against it playing an over-riding role in this survey). But if true, then, what we have here is the consensus of 91 presidential historians (each with their own political bias, but each an expert on presidential history) versus the 10 or so anti-Obama posters on the Forum (each with their own political bias and each with a strong opinion on Obama). Fair enough- it all comes down to opinion. But it is an unequal competition, as I see it. And I add that the survey specified the criteria the historians employed to make their rankings, whereas the anti's in this thread have documented their claims so far with unsupported declarations, asides and poor jokes.
 
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It was explicitly awarded for his stance on international relations, with the examples being reaching out to the Islamic world during the Cairo speech, expressing strong commitment to nuclear non-proliferation, and vowing to combat climate change.

With all due respect, I think you overestimate both the level of understanding, and concern for, U.S. ethnic tensions that Norwegian political party members have.

I am not really disagreeing with you- many factors probably played a role. I think that the Nobel committee awarded it to Obama for a variety of reasons, many of them based on the concept that his election represented a new era heralding a number of different things: a turn-around in racism, a reaching out to other cultures throughout the world, nuclear non-proliferation, combating climate change, etc. A lot of it was based (as you indicate) on his stances rather than his achievements at that very early time in his Presidency. And as recognition that his very election was meaningful in terms of who he is and his positions on these topics. Lastly I suspect the Nobel committee also hoped that the prize would strengthen his ability to make his stances and positions into actual achievements.

I only wish that events, many or most of which were outside of Obama's control, had permitted him to achieve more of what he (and I) had hoped for.
 
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