Hinckley getting out after 35 years.

[Arcade22]

My response was just saying that some crimes against individuals affect more than just the individual (such as hate crimes which terrorize an entire community). In such cases, sentencing should reflect this.

If anything the sentencing should be highly lenient to reinforce the fact that it's the position of president that's important and not the person currently holding said position. It would be a testament to the stability of the state and it's ability to choose and replace it's leaders.

This is especially true since plenty of people have grievances against their government and as the top leader they should accept the fact that people would want to target them. In that way the laws aren't designed purely to the advantage of those that hold political power.

Reagan was a mouth-breathing moron who could be replaced by pretty much anyone and it wouldn't have compromised the US government in the slightest.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Reagan was a mouth-breathing moron who could be replaced by pretty much anyone and it wouldn't have compromised the US government in the slightest.

Until you went there you had something interesting to say. The caricature of that person you tried to paint (Badly) is just that, a caricature. Why weaken your own presentation?

 

[Joey McGee]

I wonder if Mark David Chapman will ever be released.

Never. For many reasons, for one, the authorities would have to know that if he is released, some idiot crazy person is going to kill him, and he would need security agents for the rest of his life.

 

[Joey McGee]

I have no hard feelings for the professionals who are allowing his release, it's a jurisdiction thing and I'm not mad at them, I don't live there and they are responsible to the people they serve and it's not my business really. For me, there needs to be areas of the country that are like large prisons with minimum minimum secuity. Like a little town, but you can't get out easily at all, and people can come visit if they want. Jail is harsh, we need a place that's halfway between jail and the street.

 

[Joey McGee]

And we have to let them smoke dope. That will help.

 

[Giordano]

It may be worth noting again that this is not a matter of Hinckley serving an appropriate or inappropriate prison sentence as punishment for his crime. Hinckley is not getting out now because of what he was convicted of and the associated sentence: he was never convicted, but instead found criminally insane and was diverted to a mental health program. He is getting out now not because he served his term, but because the doctors believe that his prior mental illness is now adequately resolved. Whether the doctors are correct or not I cannot know.

 

[cullennz]

Never. For many reasons, for one, the authorities would have to know that if he is released, some idiot crazy person is going to kill him, and he would need security agents for the rest of his life.

Someone killing him is a piss poor excuse.

It is code for being vindictive against someone

 

[cullennz]

I have no hard feelings for the professionals who are allowing his release, it's a jurisdiction thing and I'm not mad at them, I don't live there and they are responsible to the people they serve and it's not my business really. For me, there needs to be areas of the country that are like large prisons with minimum minimum secuity. Like a little town, but you can't get out easily at all, and people can come visit if they want. Jail is harsh, we need a place that's halfway between jail and the street.

The NIMBYs will never go for it

 

[Joey McGee]

Someone killing him is a piss poor excuse.

It is code for being vindictive against someone

I don't want this to happen, I just think it probably would happen if he ever tried to mingle with the public.

The NIMBYs will never go for it

**** those people.

 

[applecorped]

I don't want this to happen, I just think it probably would happen if he ever tried to mingle with the public.

Don't give peace a chance.

 

[Babbylonian]

Some of us wouldn't go for it because the idea is stupid.

1. It's a prison. Dress it up how you want but a community that you're not allowed to leave is a prison. If someone is too dangerous to let onto the streets, then keep them locked up.
2. Who's going to maintain this prison community? Who's going to police it? Where do you get the plumbers, store owners, and any number of other professions needed to maintain a community?

It stinks of writing people off as lost causes and restricting their freedom beyond the sentences the laws currently allow. Again, if they really are so dangerous that they can't be permitted to live with the rest of us, then laws need to be enacted to keep them in the prisons we already have (which would have a lot more space if we stopped locking up drug users) longer/indefinitely.

When it comes down to it, the reason to make such a proposal is precisely because someone doesn't want ex-convicts in their backyard.

 

[Joey McGee]

Some of us wouldn't go for it because the idea is stupid.

Well that's surprising me and you usually agree on most things.

1. It's a prison. Dress it up how you want but a community that you're not allowed to leave is a prison. If someone is too dangerous to let onto the streets, then keep them locked up.

I don't really care about the criminal, I'm talking the conscience of the jailer, this person is going insane and the good guys have to deal with that. If we are going to keep them locked up forever we should no more allow them to go insane than to go without medical care.

2. Who's going to maintain this prison community? Who's going to police it? Where do you get the plumbers, store owners, and any number of other professions needed to maintain a community?

Well obviously the inmates would learn trades and build and fix.

It stinks of writing people off as lost causes and restricting their freedom

What the hell? I'm talking about improving the quality of life of people who will die in brutal jails, not denying people their chance at reentering society.

When it comes down to it, the reason to make such a proposal is precisely because someone doesn't want ex-convicts in their backyard.

Wrong, I'm saying people who normally who will never make it out, some of them deserve something halfway between. Don't pretend that wasn't obvious after you reread what I said.

 

[Babbylonian]

I don't really care about the criminal...

That's pretty *********** obvious.

...I'm talking the conscience of the jailer, this person is going insane and the good guys have to deal with that. If we are going to keep them locked up forever we should no more allow them to go insane than to go without medical care.

What are you talking about? If prisons are making people crazy then the answer is to fix the prisons, not set aside communities where they will live under similar restrictions.

Well obviously the inmates would learn trades and build and fix.

Excellent. In the meantime, they can live in squalor and without the essentials that the rest of us take for granted. Or are we going to pay professionals to work in these communities (exorbitantly given that they will be spending their days servicing convicts, a risky proposition) until these fantasy prisoners learn vital trades and somehow convince other prisoners (again, these people would still be prisoners) to pay them with...where are they working again?

What the hell? I'm talking about improving the quality of life of people who will die in brutal jails, not denying people their chance at reentering society. Wrong, I'm saying people who normally who will never make it out, some of them deserve something halfway between. Don't pretend that wasn't obvious after you reread what I said.

It wouldn't improve their quality of life. AGAIN, they would still be imprisoned and they would definitely end up living in worse conditions than they did in prison given the logistical nightmare of servicing this hypothetical prison community.

But you're right, I missed your point. It seems that your point is that we should give up on fixing the prison system*.

You might as well dump these people on an uninhabited island somewhere and just tell them to get to buildin' or get to dyin'.

*Hyperbole, but that would be one likely result.

 

[Joey McGee]

That's pretty *********** obvious.

Don't be disingenuous you know I went out of my way so say that the prisoner has a right to not go crazy.

What are you talking about? If prisons are making people crazy then the answer is to fix the prisons, not set aside communities where they will live under similar restrictions.

lol, please present a 5 point plan for fixing the prisons, and legalizing drugs doesn't count because that's too obvious. Similar restrictions? Living in a *********** underground bunker vs living in a community and you can't see how that is one tiny step away from freedom?
E

xcellent. In the meantime, they can live in squalor and without the essentials that the rest of us take for granted. Or are we going to pay professionals to work in these communities (exorbitantly given that they will be spending their days servicing convicts, a risky proposition) until these fantasy prisoners learn vital trades and somehow convince other prisoners (again, these people would still be prisoners) to pay them with...where are they working again?

Wow lame, Kinf of like dealing with global warming dealing with people; will pay off in saving on social services later... duhhhhhhh

It wouldn't improve their quality of life. AGAIN, they would still be imprisoned and they would definitely end up living in worse conditions than they did in prison given the logistical nightmare of servicing this hypothetical prison community.

Do you test high on pessimism tests?

But you're right, I missed your point. It seems that your point is that we should give up on fixing the prison system*.

Seems like you tell yourself the stories you like to hear.

You might as well dump these people on an uninhabited island somewhere and just tell them to get to buildin' or get to dyin'.

You've conclusively given yourself away.

 

[Babbylonian]

Imagine a residential square covering 4 sq. miles. Now imagine filling every residence in that area with convicts who are felt to be too dangerous to allow them to live in normal society. Now imagine just driving through that community (probably mostly apartments to reduce costs, increasing population density). It seems like a nightmare to me.

If you were an electrician, would you really be comfortable going into that area to deal with problems? There are already neighborhoods where armed police officers are nervous to patrol. Just getting food to these people would require armed security.

As for my "5-point plan" for prisons, I don't have one. I'm not an expert. I am pretty certain, though, that moving those people into planned prison communities wouldn't be an improvement. They'd have to have some sort of employment, they'd need stores (or at least very brave delivery drivers) and, again, a large number of professionals would be needed just to maintain basic infrastructure.

At the end of the day, even if you make all of it work on at least a basic subsistence level, you've still got prisoners who are stuck where they are (just like any current prison), interact pretty much only with other prisoners (see previous parenthetical), and who will have just as hard a time reintegrating into society if it's ever decided that they can be [truly] freed.

I'm sorry. I'm really not a pessimist. I just hate this idea because a) I don't think it could be made to work in a humane way and b) I don't think it serves any useful purpose even if it was plausible.

 

[cullennz]

They could all have their own gardens and kitchens with knives and hedge trimmers.

 

[Joey McGee]

Imagine a residential square covering 4 sq. miles. Now imagine filling every residence in that area with convicts who are felt to be too dangerous to allow them to live in normal society. Now imagine just driving through that community (probably mostly apartments to reduce costs, increasing population density). It seems like a nightmare to me.

I literally said that it would only be people who wanted to enter a small town that is hard to escape. You have failed.

As for my "5-point plan" for prisons, I don't have one. I'm not an expert.

I know.

don't think it could be made to work in a humane way and b) I don't think it serves any useful purpose even if it was plausible.

Well my plan is only about giving people with no chance of getting out a better mental life so you are wrong. Good night.

 

[Resume]

I wonder if Hinckley's therapy included acknowledging the pain he caused Reagan, and the anxiety he fostered in Foster? Oh yeah, and the handy handicapped placard with which he benefitted Brady?

 

[theprestige]

The effect of a successful assassination would have been to nullify the votes of the many people who voted for Reagan (ironically one could view it cynically as reaffirming the votes of those who voted against him). Not 300 million of course- not nearly that many people in the USA can or did vote.

But more importantly- Hinckley did it not to nullify the vote but to impress Jody Foster. Yes, of course he was crazy (as to now??). I can't see punishing him as if he sought to change the politics of the USA by violence.

On the other hand, I can totally see punishing him as if he sought to trade the politics of the USA for personal romantic profit.

 

[cullennz]

I wonder if Hinckley's therapy included acknowledging the pain he caused Reagan, and the anxiety he fostered in Foster? Oh yeah, and the handy handicapped placard with which he benefitted Brady?

And other nutters don't cause the same?