Hillary Clinton is Done

Status
Not open for further replies.
This is just as indefensible and silly as the "soul at conception" argument.

Indefensible, only from the secular perspective that any consideration of soul or religion is irrational and thus unsupportable by empiric evidence. Religiously, and more specifically with regard to Abrahamic tradition and law, the concept of the soul entering the body at first breath (inspiration) is on much more solid ground with regard to scripture than "soul at conception."
 
The key word is "viable". No woman should be forced to carry a non-viable foetus to term.
 
The key word is "viable". No woman should be forced to carry a non-viable foetus to term.

That sounds about right to me.

Like Ben, I used to be more absolutist about it, but I could accept some restrictions on late term abortions as long as there are reasonable exceptions made.

SCOTUS apparently agrees that fetal viability is the appropriate place to draw the line. There should be exceptions for the health of the mother, and the mother should always have the right to place the baby up for adoption anonymously I believe, if she chooses.

Exceptions should be allowed for serious birth defects, the health of the mother, and rape and incest.
 
Yes, but my point was, Bernie hasn't done so here. He has volunteers on the ground here. I know because I am one. I know some of the staff is paid!
There are many of us not in it for a living, we just want to help! I can find no ad like HRC is running. I think that says a lot about the movement!

If Sanders is president nobody will get paid an honest wage for an honest days work anymore - well they won't get to keep it anyways. His supporters are just showing the way. :)

It's cute to watch people get so excited about a guy who can't win and, even more so, absolutely should not. Hillary is that bad I guess.
 
Welcome to the world of misguided efforts to go with the non establishment. I yhink peoples hearts are in the right place... but the available candidates are ironically less appealing than the establishment
 
Until a fetus is born and breathes it is not a human being. Many very serious birth defects cannot be detected until the third trimester, and I believe a woman has an absolute right to abort a pregnancy at any time up to birth or c-section.

So you're walking back the abortion at 8 months then?

If you take a fetus out at 8 months, chances are really good it can live without any intervention. Are you suggesting it be killed?

By the way, once the fetus is clearly viable outside the womb, if the woman has a life-threatening condition, a C-section is standard practice even in a Catholic hospital.

Late term abortions are extremely rare. If you find something where Clinton discusses compromising on abortions in general rather than just on late term abortions by all means let us know.

I remind you though, you ignore Sanders previously only supporting gay civil unions and pandering to the Iowa corn growers by saying corporate subsidies were about promoting biofuels.
 
So you're walking back the abortion at 8 months then?

If you take a fetus out at 8 months, chances are really good it can live without any intervention. Are you suggesting it be killed?

By the way, once the fetus is clearly viable outside the womb, if the woman has a life-threatening condition, a C-section is standard practice even in a Catholic hospital.

Late term abortions are extremely rare. If you find something where Clinton discusses compromising on abortions in general rather than just on late term abortions by all means let us know.

I remind you though, you ignore Sanders previously only supporting gay civil unions and pandering to the Iowa corn growers by saying corporate subsidies were about promoting biofuels.

No, I am saying you just don't allow it to be born. The heart is stopped in the womb and the fetus is removed. A woman has ABSOLUTE right to her body.
 
No, I am saying you just don't allow it to be born. The heart is stopped in the womb and the fetus is removed. A woman has ABSOLUTE right to her body.
I don't think you understand what a late term abortion is. It means late in the second trimester

I'm a staunch pro-choicer and even I would call your description murder. No doctor would do that at 8 months. Even Dr Tiller did nothing of the kind.

Once that fetus is viable without extreme heroics, the woman gets her body back with a C-section.

That would be about 27 weeks max by some definitions. Between 21 and 27 weeks, drugs might be given to kill the fetus so there is no dilemma post birth about giving those extreme heroics.

Almost no abortions take place in the third trimester (32 weeks on). At 32 weeks almost all otherwise healthy infants born prematurely via C-section or vaginal delivery in the US would survive.

If the infant is born severely disabled it might be allowed to die of natural causes.
 
Human intellect does not even appear until the baby is months past birth. Humans give birth to very undeveloped babies because of the limitations of the birth canal and the size of our heads. Inuit parents who could not feed a newborn would put the infant onto the ice to die. And I do not consider that to be murder. Now, I do understand that once a baby is born the parent to child bonding happens immediately, and for good psychological reasons we do not put newborns out to die, but I see nothing special about a 8 month fetus.
 
Bernie Sanders Is Winning Feminists, Even at Hillary Clinton’s Alma Mater...

“People are apologetically Hillary supporters"
http://time.com/4220427/bernie-sanders-wellesley-hillary-clinton-femisim/

...Still, students on both sides described a pervasive sense that support for Sanders is both cooler and morally superior than support for Hillary.

That bothers Lindow, who helped design sweatshirts emblazoned with the famous picture of Clinton checking her blackberry. “Hillary is the grandma who says ‘you can have one cookie, not two’ and Bernie is the grandpa who says ‘we can all have ice cream for dinner,’” she says, describing why some of her peers don’t get excited about her. “I don’t think she should have to be cool, and it bothers me that she has to be cool.”

Still, Hillary supporters are on the defensive, even at a campus like Wellesley. “People are apologetically Hillary supporters,” says Sabina Unni, a first-year student who supports Hillary. “Sometimes I feel like I’m always making excuses for her,” says Luci Navas-Sharry.

Others said supporting Clinton made them feel just as vulnerable to criticism as the candidate herself. “You’re opening yourself up to a lot of scrutiny,” says Alex Otero, a first-year student. “You’re taking on the burden of scrutiny that Hillary takes on when she runs for President.”

Many of the female students who support Bernie Sanders acknowledge they’ve never experienced gender discrimination the way Clinton has. “For my grandma, my mom, my aunt, having a woman president is really important,” says Clare Salerno, a sophomore Sanders supporter. “I haven’t been in the workplace, I haven’t really felt that.”

Salerno is one of the most enthusiastic Sanders supporters, but she says
there’s a part of her excitement that’s bittersweet. “Sometimes part of me is kind of sad that he’s running,” she says. “Because before, I was excited about voting for Hillary.”

Some day soon there will be a strong, progressive, female candidate for president, and it will be my pleasure to support her candidacy and administration.
 
She's talking about "late-term abortions". Do you think it's OK to abort an 8 month old fetus?

When these anti-abortion nuts write these laws some of them truly believe it's better both mother and fetus die than saving the mother.

I prefer the anti-abortion nuts dying. Assisted if necessary.
 
Whatever one's opinion on late term abortion, what a classic example of the telephone game. Working backwards...

3. Ben: She's willing to compromise on choice

2. Opinion writer/headline: She's willing to compromise on abortion

1. Clinton: She's willing to compromise on late term abortion

While versions 2 and 3 are factual, it sounds worse at each step.

Not to all of us. And I really do love children. Once born.
 
Chelsea sees nothing wrong with having more people in jail per capita than any other nation on the planet, bar none. She is helping destroy her mother's candidacy every bit as much as did Steinem and Albright.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-mass-incarceration-is-worrying-a6875986.html
(1) Nowhere does she "see nothing wrong". She says Sanders is unrealistic. Big difference.
(2) You omitted her entirely legitimate reasoning, from the article:

Chelsea Clinton said the goal was not achievable, however, as the majority of inmates are held at state, not federal, prisons.
 
confused Hellary supporter said:
“Hillary is the grandma who says ‘you can have one cookie, not two’ and Bernie is the grandpa who says ‘we can all have ice cream for dinner,’”


It's more like Hillary is the grandma who claims you can only have a few crumbs while secretly serving the cookie monster, while Bernie is the grandpa who points out that there's a cookie monster and the amount of tasty stuff it constantly gobbles. ;)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom