Hillary Clinton is Done

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16.5 said:
plus, if Hillary wins the primary, she is going to make a sudden right turn that is so extreme she'll be bragging about taking Wall Street's money rather than blaming it on 9/11. You don't really believe that ******** about her going after wall street do you?
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Both times I've voted so far, I haven't had too much faith in the anti-wall street stance producing anything. Obama's campaigning more or less sealed the deal with my pessimism on that. Sanders seems to be genuine, but suffers some of the same problems Obama did in 2008... making grand promises and wanting to transform a corrupt capitalist economy into something that's "fair". Obama said "no more lobbyists" during his 2008 campaign; Sander's is promising free college education, and Hillary suggests she's not in wall street's pocket. Call me paranoid for not believing until I see it; more often than not the past record has not always been a reliable confidence setter.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
Both times I've voted so far, I haven't had too much faith in the anti-wall street stance producing anything. Obama's campaigning more or less sealed the deal with my pessimism on that. Sanders seems to be genuine, but suffers some of the same problems Obama did in 2008... making grand promises and wanting to transform a corrupt capitalist economy into something that's "fair". Obama said "no more lobbyists" during his 2008 campaign; Sander's is promising free college education, and Hillary suggests she's not in wall street's pocket. Call me paranoid for not believing until I see it; more often than not the past record has not always been a reliable confidence setter.
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It might be advisable, as a litmus test, to ask these folks now who their cabinet appointees will be. The Obama appointments to Commerce and The Fed were pretty astonishing for those expecting some sort of coming battle to the death with Wall Street and the Banks. Seemed to be a "Jeez, this is sure messed up! You guys did it; can you fix it?"
 
Grizzly Bear said:
Both times I've voted so far, I haven't had too much faith in the anti-wall street stance producing anything. Obama's campaigning more or less sealed the deal with my pessimism on that. Sanders seems to be genuine, but suffers some of the same problems Obama did in 2008... making grand promises and wanting to transform a corrupt capitalist economy into something that's "fair". Obama said "no more lobbyists" during his 2008 campaign; Sander's is promising free college education, and Hillary suggests she's not in wall street's pocket. Call me paranoid for not believing until I see it; more often than not the past record has not always been a reliable confidence setter.
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Sorry, I was using "you" to refer to the hypothetical reader. I apologize that was not clear...
 
Grizzly Bear said:
There's little differentiation made between Hillary's brand of "socialism" and Bernies', as far as the GOP is concerned; however the latter makes himself an easy target for those claims and is by far "lefter" than Obama to the point of nearly making him look like a right wing nut job by comparison.
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Definitely right leaning. Eight years ago, Hillary seemed to lean a bit less right, which is the reason I chose "the lessor evil." I've learned from that mistake, you vote for policies and candidates that you want, not against your fears of what might happen if you don't choose the lessor evil.
 
Trakar said:
Definitely right leaning. Eight years ago, Hillary seemed to lean a bit less right, which is the reason I chose "the lessor evil." I've learned from that mistake, you vote for policies and candidates that you want, not against your fears of what might happen if you don't choose the lessor evil.
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So you thought Clinton was the lesser evil compared to Obama? :confused: What were you afraid he would do?
 
So now I'm wondering, if the expectation is that Clinton will veer sharply to the right, why don't the right wingers support her? It sounds as if she would be their stealth candidate.
 
bruto said:
So now I'm wondering, if the expectation is that Clinton will veer sharply to the right, why don't the right wingers support her? It sounds as if she would be their stealth candidate.
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Just because far right wingers see her as a fringe left wing candidate does not mean that those on the left may not also see her as too far to the right on too many vitally important issues (particularly, from my perspective, economic inequality, climate change, and social injustice).
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
So you thought Clinton was the lesser evil compared to Obama? :confused: What were you afraid he would do?
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While I was concerned that he wouldn't end the Patriot act, the war in Afghanistan, NSA spying on US citizens, I was really more concerned about the really big things he would not even try to do...single-payer health care for all citizens, revenue neutral carbon tax, prosecute wall street and the Bush Cheney administration for crimes against society, eliminate "too big to fail," free public education pre-K to Grad school,...among other issues.
 
Tsukasa Buddha said:
Right, one of them isn't socialism [emoji14] .
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Just like there are different fruits, there are different ideas of socialism.

America right now embraces Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid, and that was seen as being socialism when it was done.

Bernie's Ideas and the Socialist Party's ideas are actually similar in spirit but very different in details.
 
Well, there's a significant difference.

Bernie isn't really a socialist; he just believes in a strong welfare state with a regulated (capitalist) market.

The SP are socialists; they don't want a regulated market, they want to replace capitalism with a socialist (ie, democratically controlled means of production) economy.

Though to be fair, the SP is a fairly diverse organization, and there are a few Sanders style "socialists" in its ranks.
 
bruto said:
So now I'm wondering, if the expectation is that Clinton will veer sharply to the right, why don't the right wingers support her? It sounds as if she would be their stealth candidate.
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She won't veer sharply to the right because she supports those ideas, she will do it only to support Hillary.

You are forgetting the first rules of dealing with Hillary: Hillary first, truth last.
 
9/11 Attack Profiteer Clinton Doubles Down

"It's outrageous to suggest that Senator Clinton of all people, who went to Ground Zero … that she of all people would politicize 9/11 is an outrageous notion," Clinton campaign spokesman Brian Fallon said on a conference call with reporters.

She went to Ground Zero people! Of course it is therefore OK for her to blame 9/11 for all the Wall Street contributions she took.

It was payola, or something... you know what, I cannot fathom a single interpretation of that attempt to dodge the question that makes Hillary look good.

Q: Hillary about these Wall Street contributions....
A: 9/11!
Sheep: applause
 
16.5 said:
"It's outrageous to suggest that Senator Clinton of all people, who went to Ground Zero … that she of all people would politicize 9/11 is an outrageous notion," Clinton campaign spokesman Brian Fallon said on a conference call with reporters.

She went to Ground Zero people! Of course it is therefore OK for her to blame 9/11 for all the Wall Street contributions she took.

It was payola, or something... you know what, I cannot fathom a single interpretation of that attempt to dodge the question that makes Hillary look good.

Q: Hillary about these Wall Street contributions....
A: 9/11!
Sheep: applause
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That really is a funny quote. It would be funnier if she said it herself, which she probably will.
 
This is probably a bit off-topic here, but what exactly is it about Wall Street that people don't like?
 
Trakar said:
While I was concerned that he wouldn't end the Patriot act, the war in Afghanistan, NSA spying on US citizens, I was really more concerned about the really big things he would not even try to do...single-payer health care for all citizens, revenue neutral carbon tax, prosecute wall street and the Bush Cheney administration for crimes against society, eliminate "too big to fail," free public education pre-K to Grad school,...among other issues.
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crimes against society?
 
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