Hillary Clinton is Done

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Grizzly Bear said:
Already nothing has gotten done and polarization is at record levels because one or both sides have enabled it, and you're arguing in agreement that behaving like the perceived problem source is going to solve the problem? That sounds to me like a position in politics that invites even worse conflict... I get wanting to push a progressive agenda, but too many purebred forms of these policies can cause problems. To deal with congress you really need to sway people's opinions so they don't vote the whackos in, in the first place.

ETA: I agree she's int the bed with corporatists she criticizes so much. But if Sanders wants my vote he needs to show he can do his stuff without completely alienating half of the country forcing some his ideas.
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His record of accomplishments, both in Vermont as well as in the House of Representatives and the Senate, speak to a significant measure of being able to reach consensus while aiming Left. Perhaps not on every issue, but as he pushes and motivates more significant Left participation and involvement in the processes of politics it would be reasonable to expect to see more support and influence with regard to progressive ideas.

The biggest issue right now is trying to get people to understand the difference between Socialism and Communism, the more difficult and nuanced argument is explaining the differences between progressivism and liberalism. But that's a Sanders issue more than a Hillary (or Progressive) issue.
 
Ziggurat said:
Correct. It was Hillary's supporters who started the birther flap, not Hillary herself.
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Please get out of here with that wink-wink nudge-nudge crap.

Unless you also want to wink-wink that Jodie Foster's supporters shot President Reagan?

(Who am I kidding, there were Republicans in the 80s that did exactly that. Still, I would trade today's completely bat crazy Republicans for those semi-crazy 80s ones.)
 
The birther story is crap regardless of who started it... Although my recollection of 2008 is that was never a campaign issue endorsed by the Hillary camp. Playing the blame game nearly 8 years later is kind of irrelevant at this stage, much less people who subscribed to it wanting Obama impeached. 7 years in, he's done most of what he's going to do to the country that he's going to have time for.
 
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Grizzly Bear said:
The birther story is crap regardless of who started it...
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Regardless of the fact that the story is crap, the question of who started it is quite relevant. If Hillary's campaign was responsible for circulating the story, it shows how ruthless her people can be in order to advance her electoral prospects. Actually, does anybody here really doubt that Hillary would do whatever it takes to win, as long as she isn't required to take any personal risk herself (hence the maintenance of plausible deniability)? She doesn't give a crap about the Democratic Party, nor about advancing any particular policy agenda. She wants power, first and foremost, but like a dog chasing a car, she doesn't really have any idea what she'll do with it if she grabs it.

To tell you the truth, that's why I don't mind her as much as other potential Democratic nominees. Well, that and the potential entertainment value of having Bill running wild in the East Wing of the White House.
 
sunmaster14 said:
Regardless of the fact that the story is crap, the question of who started it is quite relevant. If Hillary's campaign was responsible for circulating the story, it shows how ruthless her people can be in order to advance her electoral prospects.
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If I could get to the moon on a pogo stick, then we wouldn't need the Saturn V rocket. Stick to things that really happened.
 
sunmaster14 said:
Regardless of the fact that the story is crap, the question of who started it is quite relevant. If Hillary's campaign was responsible for circulating the story, it shows how ruthless her people can be in order to advance her electoral prospects. Actually, does anybody here really doubt that Hillary would do whatever it takes to win, as long as she isn't required to take any personal risk herself (hence the maintenance of plausible deniability)? She doesn't give a crap about the Democratic Party, nor about advancing any particular policy agenda. She wants power, first and foremost, but like a dog chasing a car, she doesn't really have any idea what she'll do with it if she grabs it.

To tell you the truth, that's why I don't mind her as much as other potential Democratic nominees. Well, that and the potential entertainment value of having
Bill running wild in the East Wing of the White House.
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Could you post a trigger warning before sharing your sexual fantasies, please?
 
sunmaster14 said:
She wants power, first and foremost, but like a dog chasing a car, she doesn't really have any idea what she'll do with it if she grabs it.
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How on earth is this any different from any other candidate?

I'm pretty sure it's just meaningless noise like arguing that networks want ratings or comedians want to know the deal with airplanes.
 
Loss Leader said:
How on earth is this any different from any other candidate?

I'm pretty sure it's just meaningless noise like arguing that networks want ratings or comedians want to know the deal with airplanes.
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This is like the criticism that used to be leveled against Bill Clinton -- that he wanted to be President since he was 14 years old. Like that's a bad thing. He had a long-term goal, and he achieved it. It's not a nefarious plot.

I'll tell you what's a nefarious plot -- planting birth announcements in 2 Honolulu papers for a child, of a teen mother, that was secretly birthed in the country of its Kenyan father, so that the kid could one day illegitimately be elected President.
 
hgc said:
This is like the criticism that used to be leveled against Bill Clinton -- that he wanted to be President since he was 14 years old. Like that's a bad thing. He had a long-term goal, and he achieved it. It's not a nefarious plot.
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It's certainly preferable to someone who comes out and says "I had no intention to become President until various pressure groups and vested interests made it clear how lucrative it would be for them, and for me afterwards" :rolleyes: - which seems to be an alternative these days
 
sunmaster14 said:
Regardless of the fact that the story is crap, the question of who started it is quite relevant. If Hillary's campaign was responsible for circulating the story, it shows how ruthless her people can be in order to advance her electoral prospects.
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Well, the important thing is to deflect away from the fact that this idiocy was a big talking point for several of the current Republican front-runners.
 
hgc said:
If I could get to the moon on a pogo stick, then we wouldn't need the Saturn V rocket. Stick to things that really happened.
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I don't know that discussion of that particularly sticky situation belongs in USA Politics. Which reminds me, "what's brown and sticky?"
 
Loss Leader said:
How on earth is this any different from any other candidate?

I'm pretty sure it's just meaningless noise like arguing that networks want ratings or comedians want to know the deal with airplanes.
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Some politicians actually have an agenda that they'd like to see implemented. For example, Bernie Sanders would like to redistribute wealth. And Republicans either want to oppress people of color for fun, force atheists to worship God, or steal more money from poor people (some want to do all of the above). At least there's an identifiable goal there. I'm not really sure what Hillary wants to do except bask in the glory of being the first female President.
 
sunmaster14 said:
I don't know that discussion of that particularly sticky situation belongs in USA Politics. Which reminds me, "what's brown and sticky?"
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It goes to the show you have a penchant for creating magical scenarios that are unsupported by the available evidence, then using those as though they were factual.
 
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