Hillary Clinton is Done: part 2

[Tony Stark]

I'm a Sanders supporter, and I can assure you that I'd rather shoot myself in the face than see Drumpf president.
Hillary is so much more qualified it's not even funny.

Ditto. Voted for Bernie in the primary. Most definitely will vote for Hillary in the general.

 

[theprestige]

I'm a Sanders supporter, and I can assure you that I'd rather shoot myself in the face than see Drumpf president.
Hillary is so much more qualified it's not even funny.

Ditto. Voted for Bernie in the primary. Most definitely will vote for Hillary in the general.

I'm curious: What made each of you vote for Bernie in the first place? Was it that you thought he might actually get the nom? If not, why did you contribute to the party split, instead of contributing to party unity behind Hillary?

Was it that you thought he'd nudge Hillary and the Dem establishment a little more to the left? If so, how do you think that's been playing out, in the primaries?

If it were Hillary v Sanders for the Presidency, which one would you vote for?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Both the Sanders and the Trump supporters loathe Clinton. Neither camp will be voting for "Crooked Hillary" -- her new nickname.

Here's another reason you are wrong:

Nate Silver: The Democratic exit poll — which has been re-calibrated to reflect Clinton’s larger-than-expected margin of victory — now has her winning 75 percent of the black vote in New York, along with 63 percent of the Hispanic vote. Clinton and Sanders split the white vote in New York almost evenly.

 

[Tony Stark]

I'm curious: What made each of you vote for Bernie in the first place? Was it that you thought he might actually get the nom? If not, why did you contribute to the party split, instead of contributing to party unity behind Hillary?

Was it that you thought he'd nudge Hillary and the Dem establishment a little more to the left? If so, how do you think that's been playing out, in the primaries?

If it were Hillary v Sanders for the Presidency, which one would you vote for?

I never thought he would win the nomination and by the time I voted, it was clear he wouldn't.

I voted for Bernie because I like him better and because I want the Democrats to move left (though I am not delusional enough to think they might as well be Republicans like some fanatical Bernie supporters). I think that has happened.

I don't think that there is much of a split in the party. The 2008 primary was much more contentious and bitter, with lots and lots of Hillary supporters claiming they would never vote for Obama and yet the party came together to defeat the Republicans. The same thing will happen this year. Bernie himself will probably urge it. And most definitely the President will, and he is extremely popular among Democrats.

If it was Bernie vs Hillary in the general, I would vote for Bernie.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Here's another reason you are wrong:

Add to that from CNN right now: 60% of the women in NY Democratic primary voted for Clinton and 90% of the voters said Clinton was more qualified than Sanders.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Here's another reason you are wrong:

"Trump’s victory cuts across every demographic. He won right across the state. With young and old. And despite all the talk about his problems with female voters, he won decisively with both men and women."

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ald-trump-victory-new-york-republican-primary

 

[Travis]

People ask why Sander's supporters would be upset by other Sander's supporters rhetoric. Well I can't speak for everyone but I can offer up my view on it.

It all starts with that for me the election isn't about getting any one candidate into office. My first, last and overall most important goal is keeping the Republicans from getting into the White House. It has never been that important which Democrat actually wins just so long as it isn't a Republican. That predominates my thinking and is behind all my decisions.

So while I like Bernie I have always had to balance that against the fact that it was always apparent Hillary would likely be the Democratic nominee. So It was always important to me that she not be put into a position to potentially lose. And that is why it has bothered me from the beginning when I felt she was being attacked in an unfair manner. I get that things can get dirty but if it results in a Republican winning I'll never, ever forgive those behind it. I still to this very day refuse to speak to a couple of people that supported Nader in 2000 giving us President W.

 

[The Big Dog]

People ask why Sander's supporters would be upset by other Sander's supporters rhetoric. Well I can't speak for everyone but I can offer up my view on it.

It all starts with that for me the election isn't about getting any one candidate into office. My first, last and overall most important goal is keeping the Republicans from getting into the White House. It has never been that important which Democrat actually wins just so long as it isn't a Republican. That predominates my thinking and is behind all my decisions.

So while I like Bernie I have always had to balance that against the fact that it was always apparent Hillary would likely be the Democratic nominee. So It was always important to me that she not be put into a position to potentially lose. And that is why it has bothered me from the beginning when I felt she was being attacked in an unfair manner. I get that things can get dirty but if it results in a Republican winning I'll never, ever forgive those behind it. I still to this very day refuse to speak to a couple of people that supported Nader in 2000 giving us President W.

Next time just say you like Hillary. Saves us from reading a ton of bull ****.

 

[Puppycow]

I believe I heard Cruz start a new name calling for Trump: Sleazy Trump.

So, Sleazy Trump, Lying Ted or Crooked Hillary. I suspect more people are tired of Jr High antics than you think.

Sleazy is just about the mildest adjective I can think of to describe Trump. Ted isn't very good at this. How about Mad Donald? Narcissist is the word I think most accurately describes him, but it's a bit too fancy of a word maybe.

Aggressive narcissism

This is Factor 1 in the Hare Psychopathy Checklist, which includes the following traits:

- Glibness/superficial charm
- Grandiose sense of self-worth
- Pathological lying
- Cunning/manipulative
- Lack of remorse or guilt
- Callous/lack of empathy
- Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

Describes Trump to a T.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Both the Sanders and the Trump supporters loathe Clinton. Neither camp will be voting for "Crooked Hillary" -- her new nickname.

At times like this I like to dredge up my wise old mother's philosophy in the 1964 Presidential elections.

"If your choice is between a crook and a son-of-a-bitch, vote for the crook."

 

[Foolmewunz]

Next time just say you like Hillary. Saves us from reading a ton of bull ****.

Had you applied that policy to your own posts over the last 18 months, you'd have saved us all from reading a lot of regurgitated witch hunting bull ****, too. One post, "I hate Hillary", would've done it.

These are the politics forums. Why should anyone want to read your or my bull **** and more than they want to read Travis'? Are you against free speech? Why do you hate America?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

People ask why Sander's supporters would be upset by other Sander's supporters rhetoric. Well I can't speak for everyone but I can offer up my view on it.

It all starts with that for me the election isn't about getting any one candidate into office. My first, last and overall most important goal is keeping the Republicans from getting into the White House. It has never been that important which Democrat actually wins just so long as it isn't a Republican. That predominates my thinking and is behind all my decisions.

So while I like Bernie I have always had to balance that against the fact that it was always apparent Hillary would likely be the Democratic nominee. So It was always important to me that she not be put into a position to potentially lose. And that is why it has bothered me from the beginning when I felt she was being attacked in an unfair manner. I get that things can get dirty but if it results in a Republican winning I'll never, ever forgive those behind it. I still to this very day refuse to speak to a couple of people that supported Nader in 2000 giving us President W.

I can only go by my impressions but I think Sanders did much better before he went all negative on Clinton. In NY he started to look like a bitter old man rather than the leader of a fresh new movement.

 

[Puppycow]

"Trump’s victory cuts across every demographic. He won right across the state. With young and old. And despite all the talk about his problems with female voters, he won decisively with both men and women."

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ald-trump-victory-new-york-republican-primary

Every demographic within the set of registered Republicans in New York.

There's still a few votes left to be counted but 98% of precincts have reported so this is close enough:

858,245 voters voted in the Republican primary, and 1,790,301 voter voted in the Democratic primary. (Trump got 518,816 votes, Clinton 1,037,380, essentially 2:1.)

Then look at the percentages:

http://edition.cnn.com/election/primaries/polls/ny/Rep
http://edition.cnn.com/election/primaries/polls/ny/Dem

56% of the Republican voters were men and 91% were white.
59% of the Democratic voters were women and 59% were white.
24% of the Republican voters were age 44 or younger.
41% of the Democratic voters were age 44 or younger.

So if we apply the percentages to the total votes received, about 215,248 women voted for Trump and 665,455 voted for Clinton; she won by more than 3:1 among women.


Anyway, my point is that that particular paragraph in that Guardian article gets it mostly wrong, because the demographics of the Republican primary voters are not the same as those of the general electorate (and even there, he still did better among men than he did among women).

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

If one includes the supers that have declared support for Clinton she now only needs 472 more delegates out of 1,668 remaining.

And I see no reason not to include the supers that have already declared their preference.

 

[bruto]

I never thought he would win the nomination and by the time I voted, it was clear he wouldn't.

I voted for Bernie because I like him better and because I want the Democrats to move left (though I am not delusional enough to think they might as well be Republicans like some fanatical Bernie supporters). I think that has happened.

I don't think that there is much of a split in the party. The 2008 primary was much more contentious and bitter, with lots and lots of Hillary supporters claiming they would never vote for Obama and yet the party came together to defeat the Republicans. The same thing will happen this year. Bernie himself will probably urge it. And most definitely the President will, and he is extremely popular among Democrats.

If it was Bernie vs Hillary in the general, I would vote for Bernie.

I'm more or less in agreement here. I would vote for Bernie between the two, but certainly would prefer Hillary to Trump.

I don't think the split will be such a big deal, and Bernie has had a healthy influence on the party - a candidate who says what he believes, rather than what he thinks the voters think he ought to say he believes. He's gotten a lot more support than most thought he would.

If I thought Bernie would cripple the party, I'd be more inclined to agree with Travis, but I don't think that will happen, and important as beating the other guy is, I don't think it's the only thing.

e.t.a. I would add, though, that I've not been that impressed with Sanders's more recent turn toward the negative. I don't think it has helped him.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Every demographic within the set of registered Republicans in New York.

There's still a few votes left to be counted but 98% of precincts have reported so this is close enough:

858,245 voters voted in the Republican primary, and 1,790,301 voter voted in the Democratic primary. (Trump got 518,816 votes, Clinton 1,037,380, essentially 2:1.)

Then look at the percentages:

http://edition.cnn.com/election/primaries/polls/ny/Rep
http://edition.cnn.com/election/primaries/polls/ny/Dem

56% of the Republican voters were men and 91% were white.
59% of the Democratic voters were women and 59% were white.
24% of the Republican voters were age 44 or younger.
41% of the Democratic voters were age 44 or younger.

So if we apply the percentages to the total votes received, about 215,248 women voted for Trump and 665,455 voted for Clinton; she won by more than 3:1 among women.


Anyway, my point is that that particular paragraph in that Guardian article gets it mostly wrong, because the demographics of the Republican primary voters are not the same as those of the general electorate (and even there, he still did better among men than he did among women).

Thank you for your math effort I was not interested in doing.

 

[Travis]

Next time just say you like Hillary. Saves us from reading a ton of bull ****.

You either didn't bother to read what I wrote or just assumed I was lying. Either way that says more about you than me. I've been very upfront this entire time about my motives.

 

[The_Animus]

It all starts with that for me the election isn't about getting any one candidate into office. My first, last and overall most important goal is keeping the Republicans from getting into the White House. It has never been that important which Democrat actually wins just so long as it isn't a Republican. That predominates my thinking and is behind all my decisions.

Ahh yes, the football team mindset. For football it's pretty irrelevant. Applied to politics it's just sad and detrimental.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Ahh yes, the football team mindset. For football it's pretty irrelevant. Applied to politics it's just sad and detrimental.

Another appropriate analogy would be the "good cop, bad cop" routine. The two parties have been pitting us against each other all along. And we fall for their scam every time. We should all be on the same side, against the two corrupt parties.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Ahh yes, the football team mindset. For football it's pretty irrelevant. Applied to politics it's just sad and detrimental.

I don't personally know the candidates at much beyond my local government level.

So at those higher levels, it makes a lot of sense to me to vote by party, rather than individual.

I am looking forward to hearing why that is "sad and detrimental."