High Speed Rail in California hits a pot hole

[SpitfireIX]

Probably never. You can't crash a train the same way you can crash a plane. And sabotaging track isn't as easy as it sounds, especially if you don't want anyone to notice it before it causes a train crash. I'm not saying it can't happen, but a plane is always going to be a more attractive target than a train, because you can't just stop a plane in midair but you can just stop a train on the tracks.

1995 Palo Verde, Arizona, derailment
1939 City of San Francisco derailment

 

[Ziggurat]

1995 Palo Verde, Arizona, derailment
1939 City of San Francisco derailment

In case it wasn't obvious, I'm not claiming terrorists never attack trains. I said that they'd never be as attractive a target as planes, and these examples don't suggest otherwise. The fact that I've never even heard of either of these cases suggests that's correct. Train attacks don't capture public attention the way plane attacks do. And how much attention they get is very important to terrorists.

 

[Metullus]

It's Metallus' fault!

It has been said...

 

[ahhell]

In case it wasn't obvious, I'm not claiming terrorists never attack trains. I said that they'd never be as attractive a target as planes, and these examples don't suggest otherwise. The fact that I've never even heard of either of these cases suggests that's correct. Train attacks don't capture public attention the way plane attacks do. And how much attention they get is very important to terrorists.

You can really thank the media for that. If a plane runs out of gas but lands perfectly safely, its big news. A training bombing that killed 47 people and injured almost 98 this May, meh not news.

ETA, man there's around 5x as many terrorist attacks on trains than planes, WTF.

List of aviation incidents involving terrorism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of terrorist incidents involving railway systems - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

High percentage of the recent ones are in Pakistan and involve the Balochistan Liveration Army.

 

[theprestige]

Can we wrap this sidebar up, please? The risk of terrorist attack is the least of HSR's concerns. If it gets about the same amount of terrorist attacks as Japan's HSR, or China's HSR, per passenger-mile traveled, everybody will consider it a huge success.

The reality is that it will never produce enough passenger-miles to even register as a worthwhile target, to the terrorists of the world.

Also, the knee-jerk "don't forget about terrorists!" response to any big infrastructure proposal is just kind of dumb to begin with. You want some worthwhile civil engineers vs terrorists content? Here you go.

 

[ahhell]

Can we wrap this sidebar up, please? The risk of terrorist attack is the least of HSR's concerns. If it gets about the same amount of terrorist attacks as Japan's HSR, or China's HSR, per passenger-mile traveled, everybody will consider it a huge success.

The reality is that it will never produce enough passenger-miles to even register as a worthwhile target, to the terrorists of the world.

Also, the knee-jerk "don't forget about terrorists!" response to any big infrastructure proposal is just kind of dumb to begin with. You want some worthwhile civil engineers vs terrorists content? Here you go.

I will but for this last thing, one of the arguments in favor of it is that folks won't have to deal with airport like security, which they really should if airport like security is actually useful. This isn't knee jerk, its a specific rebuttal to a specific supposed benefit of CAHSR.

You are correct about the ridership though, maybe a decent target on its first few days of operation,

ETA: I am also genuinely surprised to find out how common train attacks are. Who knew?

 

[ahhell]

This thing has always been sold based on lies and when that was exposed, the sunk cost fallacy.

The initial estimate was about 33 billion but independent estimates were at about 90. Within a year of passing the proposition the official estimate had increased to around 90.

They then switched from the initial plan of running from LA to SF, the only route that would really have any ridership of note to piecemeal construction starting with a route nobody would take, well, except for a grand tour of two of the worst places to live in the western US.

I grew up in the Central Valley of CA, I know of what I speak. As my aunt said, a beautiful place if you love the color brown, just make sure you avoid fire season and flood season.

 

[Ziggurat]

Ridership doesn't matter. Hell, actually laying track doesn't matter either. The money got spent. That's what matters.

From the perspective of Sacramento, California HSR has already been a fantastic success.

CA High Speed Rail Boss, Caught in $600K Scandal, Resigns

"The abrupt announcement comes in the midst of a two-day meeting of the board that oversees the project, which continues Thursday. It follows Choudri’s tumultuous two-year tenure, which has been troubled by budget woes, project delays, transparency concerns and various scandals including the misuse of nearly $600,000 in taxpayer money for questionable trips by rail authority consultants."

The money got spent. HSR is a success.

 

[Trausti]

CA High Speed Rail Boss, Caught in $600K Scandal, Resigns

"The abrupt announcement comes in the midst of a two-day meeting of the board that oversees the project, which continues Thursday. It follows Choudri’s tumultuous two-year tenure, which has been troubled by budget woes, project delays, transparency concerns and various scandals including the misuse of nearly $600,000 in taxpayer money for questionable trips by rail authority consultants."

The money got spent. HSR is a success.

Well, confidence restored. California can pass even higher taxes.

 

[ahhell]

600k, how quaint.