Herman Cain leads by 20 points!

Neally said:
Try to follow the discussion if you are going to chime in. Read post #115 then come back when you are ready to talk with the adults.
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I've read it. If the people you're trying to lead are actively hostile toward your every action, you're going to fail. At worst, perhaps Obama simply isn't as good as he needs to be to overcome the irrational and active hostility of the Republican Party, but how is that entirely his fault?

Are you a failed debater because you can't convince me that your position has at least some merit? Is that because you're not good at debating, or because I'm being irrational? A little of both, maybe?
 
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MaGZ said:
Dr. Herman Homer Gustav Maerz
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You mean this Herman Homer Gustav Maerz?:

Dr. Herman Homer Gustav Maerz also Herman Homer Gustus Maerz[1] (born 1913) was the owner of the Pioneer News Service in Chicago. He published various anti-Semitic articles in his publication The Dispatch. He republished the article Jewish Ritual Murder by British fascist Arnold Leese. Maertz suggested the Charles Lindbergh baby kidnapping and murder may have been a case of Jewish ritual murder.Maerz was the founder of the Dearborn Crusaders and acted as liaison between the German American Bund and the Silver Shirts. He distributed hundreds of thousands anti-Jewish leaflets and booklets and was sentenced on December 29, 1939 one to ten years in the Illinois State Penitentiary for malicious mischief for his literature distribution.[2]In October 1945 Maertz was arrested in New York City with Ernest F. Elmhurst, a defendant in the Great Sedition Trial of 1944 and Kurt Mertig, a pro-German leader of the Citizens' Protective League on charges of unlawful assembly and selling pamphlets on Jewish ritual murder.
You aren't seriously taking this as a reputable source, are you?
 
Cl1mh4224rd said:
I've read it. If the people you're trying to lead are actively hostile toward your every action, you're going to fail. At worst, perhaps Obama simply isn't as good as he needs to be to overcome the irrational and active hostility of the Republican Party, but how is that entirely his fault?
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How is it his fault that he's not a good leader, you know like other presidents have been, against the hostile opposing party? Is leadership something learned or born with? Perhaps a thread in another section will be good for discussion, but the point here is that BO can't lead, thus is incapable of fixing the problems we face.

Cue the, "but the GOP/Tea Party are mean, racist, evil doers, so it's not BO's fault..." argument.
 
mhaze said:
The point here is subtle.

Is it right that about half of the population should get a free ride, and pay no taxes?

No.

Then how do you fix that?
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Except that the people getting the "free ride" won't be the ones paying for these services, it's other people who simply weren't lucky enough to be born wealthy enough to be wealthy, but do well enough that they're not destitute. If they could afford these expenses, they wouldn't need the free ride. Taxes are the price of living in our society. To think that those who have found a way to exploit that society to better their own self should not support the other members of their society that allow this excessive wealth is to be ignorant of history.
 
MattusMaximus said:
Boy, I certainly hope so. I want Obama to win re-election, but if he doesn't, I'd rather have Romney than any of the other morons on the Republican side.
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Not that I've looked into it extensively, but from what I've seen, Jon Huntsman seems the most sane of the GOP candidates. Of course, he doesn't have a chance at getting the nom.


Ladewig said:
The Fair Tax people are proposing a sales tax only on new goods and services sold to an end user or customer. (Business to business sales are not counted). Someone making $10,000 per annum could avoid a lot of sales tax by buying used clothes and appliances. Unfortunately, the Fair Tax website explains that neither food nor medicine will be exempt. Yikes!
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If this is the "Fair Tax" that's been proposed for several years now, there's a "prebate" for everyone to cover the taxes up to the poverty line.
 
Newtons Bit said:
Not quite. The marginal tax rate for money earned above $34,500/year is 25%. However if you make exactly $34,500/year then your effective tax rate is 13.8% of all income. People making $34,500/year could end up paying more in taxes under Cain's plan than under the current system.
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Not 13.8, but even less, after deductions and so forth.
 
Neally said:
How is it his fault that he's not a good leader, you know like other presidents have been, against the hostile opposing party? Is leadership something learned or born with? Perhaps a thread in another section will be good for discussion, but the point here is that BO can't lead, thus is incapable of fixing the problems we face.

Cue the, "but the GOP/Tea Party are mean, racist, evil doers, so it's not BO's fault..." argument.
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Yeah, good prediction. The truth is often what is used to rebut wrong arguments (besides the racist part).

In the past, the opposing party had to at least pretend to be working toward the good of the country. The current GOP has outright stated that denying Obama a second term is their highest priority. Not the good of the country, not protecting Americans, not even advancing their own agenda, but destroying Obama. They've been excellent at distraction and obstruction.

They create an 'emergency' be it fear of voter fraud, fear of deficit, fear of immigrants, and then insist that it be dealt with. Only then they block any attempts at solutions and move to the next problem and insist the new one is the most important! What's more, all the while Obama is trying to address their new crisis dejor, they whine that he should actually be focused on one of the actual immediate problems, jobs, that he was trying to work on in the first place!

What have the GOP fixed with their Congress? Lots of anti-abortion bills.
 
ZirconBlue said:
Not that I've looked into it extensively, but from what I've seen, Jon Huntsman seems the most sane of the GOP candidates. Of course, he doesn't have a chance at getting the nom.




If this is the "Fair Tax" that's been proposed for several years now, there's a "prebate" for everyone to cover the taxes up to the poverty line.
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Yes. That was misfeasance on my part not malfeasance.
Those numbers assume a 23% sales tax (which is amount the Fair Tax people state is revenue neutral).

The prebate is very close to 23% of income for those earning exactly than $28,400 so their effective tax rate is zero.. The effective tax rate above that increases, with those making $58,800 paying around 11.5 percent, those making $235,000 paying 20% and those making $914,000 paying 23%. But the effective tax rate decreases for those earning less than $28,400. At $14,700, the tax rate becomes -23%.
 
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Neally said:
BO can't get the opposition on board because he has no leadership skills...
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That's the Republican meme these days. Republicans make demands, refuse to compromise and then blame Obama for lack of leadership skills. :rolleyes:

Sadly, there are lots of voters who are stupid enough to fall for it.
 
What's Cains stance on non-economic issues? Everybody tends to be one track minded and have tunnel vision given the current state of the economy (so we tend to ignore other factors) but as I said earlier being a President involves much more then solving economic issues.

How reasonable will Cain be when dealing with foreign leaders? What's his stance on gay marriage, marijuana legality, the wars, ect. Considering what he's said of being gay (it's a choice), Muslims (he wont appoint a muslim because according to him there's a "creeping attempt" to impose sharia law) in addition to the fact he's a baptist preacher I really see him being socially regressive for this country. Cain for Prez? No Thank you.
 
Neally said:
BO can't get the opposition on board because he has no leadership skills, not because the world doesn't genuflect reflexively at his presence.
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Horse hockey. The problem is that you have so many people who are mental ill, mentally deficient and/or utterly unethical and just serving foro the graft and determined to destroy this colored guy who presumed to run for president and advance the theory that privilleges should not be permanent.

Considering how whacked-out the GOP has become in the years since Goldwater, I would say Obama has done well just keeping the swine from enslaving us all to the top 1% of the investor class.

And you seem to be forgetting that Obama has actually been kicking al Qaeda's ass without destroying whole countries or committing heinous crimes upon the persons of prisoners of war to do it.

Must really suck to have spent decades building yourself up as the party of national defense and to have to watch the other party show you how wars are fought.
 
DavidJames said:
That's the Republican meme these days. Republicans make demands, refuse to compromise and then blame Obama for lack of leadership skills. :rolleyes:

Sadly, there are lots of voters who are stupid enough to fall for it.
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Amazingly enough, Clinton was able to get the Republicans to compromise on many different things. He was an effective leader.

Obama? He's a broken record. Obama wants to raise taxes, the Republicans say, "no", and then they agree on something else. Then Obama wants to raise taxes again, the Republicans say, "the answer is still no" and it's the Republicans fault. Maybe if Obama could come up with something new he could get something. But the moral is quite simple: good leaders aren't broken records. It's like asking a woman to marry you over and over again, then blaming her for not saying yes.
 
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leftysergeant said:
Horse hockey. The problem is that you have so many people who are mental ill, mentally deficient and/or utterly unethical and just serving foro the graft and determined to destroy this colored guy who presumed to run for president and advance the theory that privilleges should not be permanent.

Considering how whacked-out the GOP has become in the years since Goldwater, I would say Obama has done well just keeping the swine from enslaving us all to the top 1% of the investor class.
And you seem to be forgetting that Obama has actually been kicking al Qaeda's ass without destroying whole countries or committing heinous crimes upon the persons of prisoners of war to do it.

Must really suck to have spent decades building yourself up as the party of national defense and to have to watch the other party show you how wars are fought.
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Particularly concerning the hilited area, the GOP made no bones about their intention to break Obama from the git-go. IMHO, Obama's greatest fault is that he tried to be too nice to these people, like, for example, that congressman who shouted out, "You lie!" while Obama was making his State of the Union (?) speech to congress. Such blatant and gratuitous disrespect had never been voiced before, regardless of who the President was. It shows how low the Republican Party has sunk.
 
That any number of republicons still consider Michelle Bachmann a grown-up and let her serve on an equal footing on any congressional committee shows how deranged they are.
 
Newtons Bit said:
But the moral is quite simple: good leaders aren't broken records. It's like asking a woman to marry you over and over again, then blaming her for not saying yes.
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Yeah, what's with that chinless dork from Kentucky and the orange-skinned freak from Ohio shrieking about how we shouldn't tax the "job creators" when the people they are protecting are not creating jobs in spite of being handed all manner of tax breaks already?

There is no such thing as a leader in the GOP any more. You just have a few rioters who are more noticeable as they tear the country down.
 
leftysergeant said:
And you seem to be forgetting that Obama has actually been kicking al Qaeda's ass without destroying whole countries or committing heinous crimes upon the persons of prisoners of war to do it.
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No heinous crimes, just killing a US citizen. What a great testament to the Nobel Peace Prize winner!
mhaze said:
So who ran his 2008 campaign?
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You mean David Axelrod?
 
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