Hell is NOT a deterrent

justsaygnosis

Critical Thinker
J
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...any more than capital punishment is.
Hell has been preached for centuries and yet it hasn't scared anyone into being 'good'.
Capital punishment is the most extreme measure with which we can respond to atrocious behavior as a society. It doesn't stop the behavior it simply achieves the result that the recipient will not be a repeat offender.
Rhode Island outlawed capital punishment after an innocent man was hanged.....OOPS!!!....sorry. Can it be used in extreme circumstances? I have mixed emotions. Sometimes something so despicable occurs it seems a waste of time to finance keeping a psychotic alive indefinitely. The flip side is execution is actually more merciful than allowing them to linger until they die.
The only thing I can surmise, to the limits of my understanding, that truly DETERS abhorrent behavior is a consciousness that functions with sufficient empathy, self-worth and dignity that they are prevented from behaving maniacally by their psychic constitution.
The golden rule can also be stated,"Don't do to another so as to cause them suffering", rather than simply 'Do unto others as you would have done unto you." For example, a sado-masochist may enjoy being humiliated and beaten but that's not a permit to do the same unto others.
It's been argued repetitively that all moral, ethical and empathetic reasoning did NOT arise exclusively of religions.
Once again for the fundies....HELL DOESN'T WORK as a deterrent.
See if you can come up with something better.
 
justsaygnosis said:
...any more than capital punishment is.
Hell has been preached for centuries and yet it hasn't scared anyone into being 'good'.
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I disagree. I believe that, over the millenia, it has scared millions of sheep-brained people into being "good", or at least following the orders of a church.

Capital punishment is the most extreme measure with which we can respond to atrocious behavior as a society. It doesn't stop the behavior it simply achieves the result that the recipient will not be a repeat offender.... Can it be used in extreme circumstances? I have mixed emotions.
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It can. Like Timothy McVeigh.

But you're right, thinking that it serves as a deterrent is bad. It justifies its use in non-extreme cases, which is dangerous.

The golden rule can also be stated,"Don't do to another so as to cause them suffering", rather than simply 'Do unto others as you would have done unto you." For example, a sado-masochist may enjoy being humiliated and beaten but that's not a permit to do the same unto others.
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Exactly. Well said.

Once again for the fundies....HELL DOESN'T WORK as a deterrent.
See if you can come up with something better.
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Fundies don't think that there is anything better.
 
Re: Re: Hell is NOT a deterrent

Beleth said:
I believe that, over the millenia, it has scared millions of sheep-brained people into being "good", or at least following the orders of a church.
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Millions of sheep-brained peopled following the orders of a church have rarely, if ever, resulted in "good."
 
Neither are other fantasies of punishment.

I don't find myself terribly motivated to avoid 'Rure Penthe', the Klingon prison world, either.

I don't wear tin foil hats to avoid alien brain waves, nor do I walk around with a lightning rod hat in case Zeus gets pissed off over my lack of faith.
 
Hell makes a perfectly terrible deterrent.

Without Hell, how would the churches stay in business. Sure, the idea that being a non-believer or being bad might scare plenty of people into worshipping God and Jesus Christ (as it has done for years), but that just isn't enough. I believe that without fear of punishment in this life or the completely implausible irrational next life, a much larger number of people would be committing crimes. Without fear of being punished in any form, most people would feel uninhibited to hurt others. Years of environmental behavior modification have kept the human race from degenerating into a completely lawless destructive race or criminals.

One of the things that dissappoints me the most is the number of people we have sitting in jails and prisons. And isn't it amazing that so many of the criminals, almost like magic, rediscover Jesus Christ as their lord and savoir... sorry chump, you did the crime and no amount of prayer is going to get out any sooner... and don't think for a second that if there was really a god he would go any easier on you.
 
Re: Re: Re: Hell is NOT a deterrent

Yahzi said:

Millions of sheep-brained peopled following the orders of a church have rarely, if ever, resulted in "good."
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You almost make it sound like the millions not doing "good", are acting in "evil". For me, a person who helps others (such as someone in the medical field) or advances human knowledge (whether in science, mathematics, etc.) or writes literature is doing good. I'm not saying people who dont do those things aren't doing good, they are just a few examples.

Anyone who goes through life acting no more good or evil than anyone else, anyone who doesn't really make his life of any worth to the human race or minimally his community, anyone who is expendable is neither good nor evil. They are more or less neutral.

The people who go out and recklessly endanger the lives of people or animals around him, people who go out and intentionally hurt or kill others, people who harm or cause suffering to others (suffering also includes monetary loss and saying/doing things to make another feel bad or other negative emotion) are evil. It doesn't take much common sense to discern evil from good and neutral.
 
Yahweh said:
Hell makes a perfectly terrible deterrent.

Without fear of being punished in any form, most people would feel uninhibited to hurt others. Years of environmental behavior modification have kept the human race from degenerating into a completely lawless destructive race or criminals.

One of the things that dissappoints me the most is the number of people we have sitting in jails and prisons. And isn't it amazing that so many of the criminals, almost like magic, rediscover Jesus Christ as their lord and savoir... sorry chump, you did the crime and no amount of prayer is going to get out any sooner... and don't think for a second that if there was really a god he would go any easier on you.
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I agree to a point that fear will inhibit the malicious dillitante but the unbending intent of the sociopath attempts only to avoid capture but not discontinuation of their behavior.
In spite of our many savage and primal outbursts as individuals and as a species, by and large our behavior is oriented toward social order.
 
hell isn't the christian's best weapon

As Jesus himself admits. Eternal life is the best tool in the Christian's kit.
 
Hell, hell is for children...
sorry eighties flashback, where am I?

Oh yes, hell is great motivator for lying and swearing and raising.
 
If you can convince someone to believe without a shadow of a doubt that being a good Christian is required to keep them from a torturous Hell, then they'll be good Christians and agonize over their fate every time they disobey their rules. But that has nothing to do with living a moral life. Obedience through fear has often been used as a tool to commit terrible atrocities against humanity.

This type of fear inducing threat is actually counter to living a moral life. Fear causes a person to act in a selfish manner, as one's motivations are purely selfish. Simple cultivated human compassion is the best guide to a moral life, a message taught by Jesus and largely ignored by church authorities, who are more interested in obedience.
 
Hell (and I suspect capital punishment) is only useful if one actually believes that it is going to happen to them personally.

As has already been pointed out Hell is a good tool at keeping the believer in line, and making it difficult for him to stray. As you say Cinorjer, the usefulness of Hell is to keep the believer obedient. It is not much of an evangelical tool.

You have to trap an animal with a carrot first. Once you get it harnessed up and get the blinders on it, a whip is more efficient.
 
Tormac said:
Hell (and I suspect capital punishment) is only useful if one actually believes that it is going to happen to them personally.
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That's why fundamentalist churches are so keen on making members PARANOID about all things diabolical. They have to make it REAL, and imminent, or it has no effect.

I think it's interesting that only fundamentalists tend to have "negative" near death experiences, similar to the classic conception of Hell. Does that mean that only fundys are going to Hell?
 
Consider this:

Hell isn't to knock the unbelievers into line. It's to keep the believers in line.
 
Man of jade said:
Hell isnt a deterrent as much as Bill Clinton didnt have "relations" with monica lewinsky.
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I was thinking more along the lines of 'locks keep honest people from snooping around but they present a challenge to a dedicated thief.'
 
Hell has been a very effective instrument of suppression, especially for children and other gullible and mailable minds. I personally have had countless nightmares of hell when I was a kid. Being told hell is infinitely more agonizing the worst imaginable torture on this earth was enough to put terror in the mind of every gullible kid.
 
Man of jade said:
Hell isnt a deterrent as much as Bill Clinton didnt have "relations" with monica lewinsky.
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You nail one fat woman and for the rest of your life it appears no one has yet to let it go...
 
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