Heeeeeeere's Obamacare!

[maxpower1227]

Not possible. Harry Reid says so,
"Despite all that good news, there's plenty of horror stories being told. All of them are untrue, but they're being told all over America."


http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/harry-reid-denies-all-obamacare-horror-stories-all-are-untrue_783449.html

Again, all the people worse off are lying. Or racist. Or both.

I think Reid was referring to the "horror stories" being pimped by corporatist groups like Americans For Prosperity, pretty much all of which were in fact lies.

I could be wrong, but I would guess EC is not criticizing the ACA from the standpoint of someone who wants to repeal the entire law and go back to the broken status quo we had before, which the fascists in the GOP are doing.

 

[Unabogie]

Not possible. Harry Reid says so,
"Despite all that good news, there's plenty of horror stories being told. All of them are untrue, but they're being told all over America."


http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/harry-reid-denies-all-obamacare-horror-stories-all-are-untrue_783449.html

Again, all the people worse off are lying. Or racist. Or both.

If you really want conservatives to stop being called racist, then stop claiming that Obama is a secret Kenyan, or a secret Muslim, or that Michelle is "Moochelle", stop bringing confederate flags to rallies, stop rallying around cretins like Zimmerman, and stop saying racist things or nominating white supremacists to office. You'll feel better. We'll feel better. We'll all feel better.

Hope this helps.

 

[Neally]

I think Reid was referring to the "horror stories" being pimped by corporatist groups like Americans For Prosperity, pretty much all of which were in fact lies.

What part of "all of them untrue..." do you not understand? That would include the two liars from the HuffPo article I quoted.

If you really want conservatives to stop being called racist, then stop claiming that Obama is a secret Kenyan, or a secret Muslim, or that Michelle is "Moochelle", stop bringing confederate flags to rallies, stop rallying around cretins like Zimmerman, and stop saying racist things or nominating white supremacists to office. You'll feel better. We'll feel better.

And if you really want them to stop lying about Obamacare, then they have to stop with this nonsense about some people being worse off under Obamacare. Damn lying liars. Obamacare works better for everyone. Except them liars. And racists.

 

[johnny karate]

What part of "all of them untrue..." do you not understand? That would include the two liars from the HuffPo article I quoted.

And if you really want them to stop lying about Obamacare, then they have to stop with this nonsense about some people being worse off under Obamacare. Damn lying liars. Obamacare works better for everyone. Except them liars. And racists.

I'm not sure how successful this strategy will be for you.

Have you considered holding your breath and stomping your feet?

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Best to assume that there will be winners and losers.

We can play "dueling anecdotes", but that does little to inform us regarding the big picture.

Annual statistical alalysis of number of citizens newly covered, those who have lost coverage, those who have had decreased premiums (and by how much), those who have had increased premiums (and by how much), those who have better coverage vs. those who have worse, those forced to change doctors or hospitals - all those metrics would be nice to know going forward.

I hope we can get reliable data on each of the above - one would assume the government is tracking such things to weigh the effectiveness of such a major new program.

 

[Biscuit]

I'm not unhappy with my ACA results, but my silver plan is a lot more expensive than your gold plan, $565 a month, and it doesn't cover dental. They don't even ask about pre-existing conditions, of course. I know geography is considered, as well as age (are you younger than 58?). Perhaps there are other variables I'm not considering. Or could the $25 subsidy be a typo, and you meant $250?

Not typo, $25.00. I am 33 and live in Arizona. I understand our costs are lower here because there is more competition because of our huge retired population.

 

[Biscuit]

Not possible. Harry Reid says so,
"Despite all that good news, there's plenty of horror stories being told. All of them are untrue, but they're being told all over America."


http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/harry-reid-denies-all-obamacare-horror-stories-all-are-untrue_783449.html

Again, all the people worse off are lying. Or racist. Or both.

As I recall from a few months ago the horror stories were a result of the individuals being misinformed or not using the market place. I am sure that in the short term there are genuinely inconvenienced people. In the long run I think everyone will benefit.

 

[Peephole]

Because the only criticism of Obamacare comes from lying racists.

I'm pretty sure I'm not a racist and I think there's plenty that could improve the US healthcare system.

 

[Walter Wayne]

Wait, doesn't everyone criticize Obamacare. One side wants to repeal it, and the other wants to replace it with single payer ... or at least a public option.

So in summary
Criticism of Obamacare comes from lying racists.
Everyone criticizes Obamacare.
Therefore the only conclusion is ...

 

[Grizzly Bear]

For some people it doesnt matter... questioning the law is like treason or "whining". But to be fair amongst my encounters here its a minority opinion. Even if I dont agree with the law or how its implemented I can at least understand the intent and reasoning between my peers and how the law is framed

 

[Kestrel]

I think Reid was referring to the "horror stories" being pimped by corporatist groups like Americans For Prosperity, pretty much all of which were in fact lies.

I could be wrong, but I would guess EC is not criticizing the ACA from the standpoint of someone who wants to repeal the entire law and go back to the broken status quo we had before, which the fascists in the GOP are doing.

The debunkers are now being condemned for "attacking" the so called victims of these horror stories. The fact that they are not really victims doesn't seem to matter.

ETA: Does AFP really stand for Americans For Plutocracy?

 

[Kestrel]

For some people it doesnt matter... questioning the law is like treason or "whining". But to be fair amongst my encounters here its a minority opinion. Even if I dont agree with the law or how its implemented I can at least understand the intent and reasoning between my peers and how the law is framed

Factual and logical discussion of problems with the Affordsble Care Act is appreciated in this group. Repetition of false claims, use of logical fallacies and posting baseless conspiracy theories is not.

 

[Unabogie]

Factual and logical discussion of problems with the Affordsble Care Act is appreciated in this group. Repetition of false claims, use of logical fallacies and posting baseless conspiracy theories is not.

Precisely. There are many problems with the law, and it would be wonderful if conservatives would be willing to help fix them in good faith. The first step on that road is to stop lying about the law, which does nothing but gin up donations to "social welfare groups" like Crossroads GPS.

 

[Neally]

The debunkers are now being condemned for "attacking" the so called victims of these horror stories. The fact that they are not really victims doesn't seem to matter.

Exactly! Those two people from the HuffPo article aren't really victims worse off under Obamacare. Just more stupid liars. Curse those that condemn Harry Reid for telling the truth that anyone saying they are worse off are just lying.

Precisely. There are many problems with the law, and it would be wonderful if conservatives would be willing to help fix them in good faith. The first step on that road is to stop lying about the law, which does nothing but gin up donations to "social welfare groups" like Crossroads GPS.

Yeah, those liars saying they are worse off under Obamacare need to come clean. Shame on them!

 

[Unabogie]

Exactly! Those two people from the HuffPo article aren't really victims worse off under Obamacare. Just more stupid liars. Curse those that condemn Harry Reid for telling the truth that anyone saying they are worse off are just lying.


Yeah, those liars saying they are worse off under Obamacare need to come clean. Shame on them!

Yes, those people lying about the law need to stop it. Those who have actual problems are being drowned out by the liars. Is that really so hard a concept for you to grasp?

 

[Blue Mountain]

As a reminder, the rates my wife and I would have faced in the state of GA were it not for the fact that I qualify for Medicare in August.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3693/13906562054_a4ce859281.jpg

Aetna is pulling out of GA, so they will not renew Karen as an individual at that point.

I guess we'll have to see what the landscape is then.

Are there subsidies available to help with these premiums? $1,111.08 for the least expensive Bronze plan is a lot of money. And what's with the $12,688 out of pocket maximum? Didn't the ACA cap that at about $6,500?

 

[Neally]

Yes, those people lying about the law need to stop it. Those who have actual problems are being drowned out by the liars. Is that really so hard a concept for you to grasp?

Wait, are you saying there are really some people that are actually worse off? I'm telling Harry Reid on you. He says you're a liar.

 

[Unabogie]

Wait, are you saying there are really some people that are actually worse off? I'm telling Harry Reid on you. He says you're a liar.

Sheesh, of course there are some people who ended up paying more. But the best estimate is that it's about 1% of the total population, and they are people who make too much to get subsidies. What are more worrisome are the people like Fast Eddie who live in states where the exchanges are very expensive. We need to amend the law to allow the costs to be spread more evenly. There's no reason why Red Staters should suffer just because their representatives are intent on fighting "Obamacare". Also, there are about 5 million people who live in Red States who won't expand Medicaid, so they are not getting Medicaid and also don't qualify for subsidies. Those people need our help, no?

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Are there subsidies available to help with these premiums?

I don't know. I hesitated to put in a bunch of personal financial information since our Aetna policy, at $363/month, is good until August.

After that, we'll be shopping for a policy for Karen, since Aetna will no longer be available. If the cheapest available is around 50% of the numbers we're seeing as a couple (about $550) it is still going to put an unwelcome dent in our discretionary spending.

And what's with the $12,688 out of pocket maximum? Didn't the ACA cap that at about $6,500?

Don't know. $14k or so in annual premiums PLUS $12.7k in out of pocket PLUS copays could make for some very expensive years.

I, personally, enjoyed the latitude to choose plans unencumbered, including our current high-deductible plan. We liked our plan, but cannot keep it past August. I do not know why Aetna is abandoning GA, but they are. I do not know how others will fare, but that rate page really did surprise Karen and me - it just did not relate well to the "affordable" part of the act.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

There's no reason why Red Staters should suffer just because their representatives are intent on fighting "Obamacare".

Is that the real reason?

I assumed that those rates are what a company would have to charge to cover all preexisting conditions and to have no cap on outlays per client. That sounds to me like an expensive proposition that would virtually necessitate high premiums.

If other states can have private companies cover the same requirements for markedly lower premiums and still make a profit, something does not compute - and I think it goes beyond Red State/Blue State.

But I would like it made clearer exactly why that rate page for GA is as it is.