• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Heeeeeeere's Obamacare!

It's unfortunate, but pretty much inevitable, that some people who previously had extremely coverage will end up having to pay more now (although still less than most). But if the fact that an awful lot of people are going to benefit greatly from the new system isn't enough to make you feel better about it, consider this:

You are currently on a so-called "catastrophic" coverage policy, meaning that the primary benefit your coverage provides is not for ordinary medical costs that people typically incur, but for the possibility that you might end up with serious medical problems that would otherwise bankrupt you, or even worse leave you unable to obtain the care you need at all.

So even if the level of coverage of the minimal bronze policy is not any better than your current policy, under the new system you will benefit from an additional level security against financial ruin from catastrophic health problems that is not even specific to your policy. And that is the fact that if something catastrophic does happen, you won't have to worry about being dropped by your current policy and then having to pay through the nose to get your pre-existing conditions covered (if you are lucky enough to get coverage at all).

And of course there is also the fact that you won't always be in the young low-risk category that could get cheap insurance under the old system. People who are exceptionally low-risk may end up paying more now, while higher risk people end up paying less. But even if you avoid any serious health problems your whole life, it's just a matter of time before you end up in a higher risk group.

It would help a lot if you would read everything I've said about my existing policy rather than cherry-picking. as it is, much of what you wrote does not apply to my current plan, nor even to the new plan that I will be forced to go on.
 
Well, my current plan won't exist on Jan 1, 2014. I'll have to switch over to something else that is ACA acceptable.

You're single and you make four times the poverty level (around $50,000 a year, I'm guessing?). It sucks that you (and I) have to pay more, but certainly paying more for insurance shouldn't be a new thing for you. My insurance (and the rest of the country's) has been going up by double digits for a long time now.

The ACA is affordable ($160 a month for your bronze policy really isn't that outrageous), and if you're a typical middle class family without insurance, it's REALLY affordable. That's who it was meant to help. Over time, the subsidies will probably increase. They usually do with these sorts of things.
 
One thing that confused me about Illinois's implementation is that (from what I saw) they have a site whose sole purpose is to check if you qualify for Medicare/aid. Then it bumps you to the federal site. Or you could just skip it. Couldn't that have been implemented in the federal site?

It might be acting as a gatekeeper for the current state-run Medicaid. Just hypothesizing of course, but it could be that if you qualify for Medicaid, they send you to a different, state-run site, and if you don't, then they're letting the feds handle their exchange.
 
With all the work they are doing to the site, might be helpful to flush the local page caches.
 
Newtons Bit said:
It would help a lot if you would read everything I've said about my existing policy rather than cherry-picking. as it is, much of what you wrote does not apply to my current plan, nor even to the new plan that I will be forced to go on.
I'm not sure what you think I have cherry picked. What exactly about what I said do you think does not apply to your situation?

It is pretty clear from the fact that your current policy is only about $60 a month that it is a catastrophic coverage policy, and that the low rate you are paying is only available to low risk customers.

And as I said, the benefit will you get under the new system is a benefit that everybody has under the new system, regardless of what their current coverage is, or what their new coverage will be next year. Maybe you do not place much value on the fact that in the future you will be able to get affordable insurance that covers pre-existing conditions if you end up needing it. But that is a benefit that you and everybody else is getting under the new system, and that benefit costs money. It should certainly come as no surprise that this additional level of security pushes up the price of the cheapest policies the most.
 
I'm not sure what you think I have cherry picked. What exactly about what I said do you think does not apply to your situation?

It is pretty clear from the fact that your current policy is only about $60 a month that it is a catastrophic coverage policy, and that the low rate you are paying is only available to low risk customers.

It is not a catastrophic plan. It has better copays and deductibles than the cheapest plan (that is still $100 more than my current plan) allowed under Obamacare.

And yes, I'm low risk: I'm 30, non-smoker, non-drinker and not overweight.
 
You're single and you make four times the poverty level (around $50,000 a year, I'm guessing?). It sucks that you (and I) have to pay more, but certainly paying more for insurance shouldn't be a new thing for you. My insurance (and the rest of the country's) has been going up by double digits for a long time now.

I make quite a bit less than $50,000 and I've run the online calculators and I'm not eligible for the subsidies.

My health insurance rates aren't just "going up", they're going up by 167%. That's triple digits. And to add more problems, my coverage is going down in many areas that will cost me even more money per year than just the insurance deltas.
 
Last edited:
I make quite a bit less than $50,000 and I've run the online calculators and I'm not eligible for the subsidies.

My health insurance rates aren't just "going up", they're going up by 250%. That's triple digits. And to add more problems, my coverage is going down in many areas that will cost me even more money per year than just the insurance deltas.

It sucks that yours is going up, by a fairly sizable amount, if I had to go through the market, mine would go up too. That being said, it's all about checks and balances. There are some people that are going to pay more now, and save some at the end.
 
I've seen more then a few conservatives when faced with someone who's complaining about not being able to afford something reply by telling them they need to work harder, get a better job or other advice suggesting the problem lies with the complainer. You know, that personal responsibility, self reliance thing.

The fact is there are some people who will pay more, more however, based on non biased sources will pay less or be able to get insurance they couldn't before. It's very unfortunate for the former. I hope you're able to find a solution that works for you.
 
Last edited:
Newtons Bits said:
It is not a catastrophic plan. It has better copays and deductibles than the cheapest plan (that is still $100 more than my current plan) allowed under Obamacare.
The fact that it has better copays and deductibles than the cheapest plan under the ACA is not saying much, since they are the absolute minimum coverage you can get under the ACA. Whether you use the term "catastrophic" to describe it or not is really beside the point. The fact remains that you currently have very minimal coverage, and that the primary benefit that coverage provides for you is protection from financial ruin and/or the inability to the get the health care you need if something very bad happens.

Anyway, the "catastrophic" issue aside, my point still stands. You will be getting a substantial benefit under the new system that your current policy does not provide. That benefit costs money. And the cost for that benefit will naturally tend to impact the cheapest policies the most. One effect of the ACA is to pull up the bottom end of the distribution in terms of health coverage, so naturally this is also going to pull up the bottom end of the distribution in terms of policy costs. That is one of the reasons for having a subsidization policy in place for low income people.

What I'm trying to get at here is that regardless of the difference in copays and deductibles, you are getting an extremely valuable benefit under the new system that was not available at all before. You need to at least factor that in when considering whether you are getting value for that money or not. And regardless, you may want to consider the fact that people who currently pay a lot more for health insurance than you do (which is almost everybody who has it) are not likely to have much sympathy for somebody complaining that their rates are going to go up to an amount that is still less than what they have to pay.
 
I don't know any Illinois resident IRL who was able to create an account and log into it. You're the only one on this board from Illinois who claims to have done so successfully.

I don't know anyone in the entire country IRL who was able to create an account other than myself, and yet I believe that others have been able to do so. Call me gullible.
 
I don't know anyone in the entire country IRL who was able to create an account other than myself, and yet I believe that others have been able to do so. Call me gullible.
I didn't say no one did, just that most people haven't been able to. And we're now 2 weeks into it, and they still haven't found a fix for the glitches.
 
I didn't say no one did, just that most people haven't been able to. And we're now 2 weeks into it, and they still haven't found a fix for the glitches.

This thing wasn't ready to be launched, but delay in this political environment wasn't possible.
 
I didn't say no one did, just that most people haven't been able to. And we're now 2 weeks into it, and they still haven't found a fix for the glitches.

I agree. It is a ****** launch. The website sucks and I am currently locked out of my account.

The thing to remember is that the law is more than the website. I just wish they could have gotten the website right.
 
So to satisfy my own curiosity, I went over and signed up. The website was indeed slow but the whole process took less than 45 minutes from start to presenting me with plans. I did not do any of the part about subsidies so I could see what full freight would be on the costs. I signed on as a female, late 40s, non-smoker. This is thru the federal exchange, btw, because TX refused to set one up.

Plans were offered by Cigna, Blue Cross, Humana, and Aetna. All levels except one had more than ten plans per level to choose from.

The platinum plan had just one offering, by Humana. 90%, 0 deductible, $1500 out of pocket maximum, $25 primary co-pay, HMO. $464.10/ mo.

The lowest priced bronze plan was Blue Cross. 60%, $6000 deductible, $6000 maximum out of pocket, no co-pay after deductible, HMO. $270.46/ mo.

The highest priced plan was a Blue Cross Gold Plan. 80%, $1000 deductible, $2750 maximum out of pocket, $25 primary co-pay, PPO. $637.92/ mo.
 
The fact that it has better copays and deductibles than the cheapest plan under the ACA is not saying much, since they are the absolute minimum coverage you can get under the ACA. Whether you use the term "catastrophic" to describe it or not is really beside the point. The fact remains that you currently have very minimal coverage, and that the primary benefit that coverage provides for you is protection from financial ruin and/or the inability to the get the health care you need if something very bad happens.

Anyway, the "catastrophic" issue aside, my point still stands. You will be getting a substantial benefit under the new system that your current policy does not provide. That benefit costs money. And the cost for that benefit will naturally tend to impact the cheapest policies the most. One effect of the ACA is to pull up the bottom end of the distribution in terms of health coverage, so naturally this is also going to pull up the bottom end of the distribution in terms of policy costs. That is one of the reasons for having a subsidization policy in place for low income people.

What I'm trying to get at here is that regardless of the difference in copays and deductibles, you are getting an extremely valuable benefit under the new system that was not available at all before. You need to at least factor that in when considering whether you are getting value for that money or not. And regardless, you may want to consider the fact that people who currently pay a lot more for health insurance than you do (which is almost everybody who has it) are not likely to have much sympathy for somebody complaining that their rates are going to go up to an amount that is still less than what they have to pay.

This may not be entirely true, Stimpson.

For example: In one of my states, our most popular plan prior to ACA had a $3500 deductible, $10 copays for office visits, and a flat $100 copay for ER visits. It ran about $95 for a 40 year old.

The least expensive bronze plan we offer has a $5000 deductible, $25 copay for OV, and ER is subject to deductible and coinsurance. It runs about $180 for a 40 year old.

At first glance, it looks like the bronze plan has higher deductible, higher copays, and also costs nearly twice as much!

The difference is that the prior plan had no maternity, no drug coverage, and no out of pocket maximum; it also had limits on the number of visits that were covered for physical therapy, mental health counseling, and chiropractic, and a total dollar limit on what we'd pay if you were hospitalized. It was designed to be a very lean plan that gave generous looking coverage to people who were healthy and had no real medical needs. If people were sick, they didn't get much out of that plan, since it didn't cover (or it severely limited) services that sicker people were more likely to need.

On an apples-to-apples basis, the bronze plan is considerably more generous than the prior plan was. But if you don't need, or don't care about those particular services, it's not really a great move.

Without knowing details, I can't say whether this is the case with Newton's plan; I can however, say that your assessment of it as being an extremely valuable increase in benefits isn't well-founded. It might be true in aggregate terms, but that doesn't mean that Newton's going to find it to be a meaningful increase. If he isn't planning to become pregnant (:p) and doesn't use drugs, and doesn't anticipate needing a lot of physical therapy and hospitalization, then to him, it's added cost with higher costshares, and no increased benefit to him.
 
It is not a catastrophic plan. It has better copays and deductibles than the cheapest plan (that is still $100 more than my current plan) allowed under Obamacare.

And yes, I'm low risk: I'm 30, non-smoker, non-drinker and not overweight.

This isn't passing the smell test. If you were paying only $60 a month before, you had to have had a ****** catastrophic plan with a high deductible. Decent insurance costs a fair amount of money. That's why the ACA subsidies are so generous.

So for $100 more a month, you'll have a plan that will actually keep you out of bankruptcy court, should something terrible happen, along with other added benefits. I don't see why that would make you so upset with Obama. Seems like a good thing to me.
 
Last edited:
My error code from the url is OAM-2. No idea what that means. Still haven't received any emails from the "forgot" links.
 
This isn't passing the smell test. If you were paying only $60 a month before, you had to have had a ****** catastrophic plan with a high deductible. Decent insurance costs a fair amount of money. That's why the ACA subsidies are so generous.

So for $100 more a month, you'll have a plan that will actually keep you out of bankruptcy court, should something terrible happen, along with other added benefits. I don't see why that would make you so upset with Obama. Seems like a good thing to me.

My out of pocket maximums is going from $8,000 to $6,350. My deductible is the same*My monthly payment is going up by $100/month if I select the cheapest plan available to me under Obamacare. You may or may not think highly of my previous plan (I thought it was good), but the new plans I'm offered cost more and aren't any better.

The only thing that doesn't pass the smell test is this law.

*eta: if I select the second cheapest plan, a few bucks more a month; the cheapest plan under Obamacare doesn't pay much of anything until the $6,350 deductible is reached.
 
Last edited:

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom