Health-care reform: what do we do now?

[Bob Blaylock]

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub.../healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

Ok. according to Tuesday's Rasmussen poll, a good majority of American do NOT like Obama's plan.
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But it does not look good. I do not want Congress to pass a Bill that would lead to our loss of the House or even the Senate.

So, you don't care what sort of unmanageable mess this bill would make out of the health care industry if it were to pass; you only care what the political consequences would be for the Democratic party?

 

[332nd]

So, you don't care what sort of unmanageable mess this bill would make out of the health care industry if it were to pass; you only care what the political consequences would be for the Democratic party?

What unmanageable mess would that be?

 

[McHrozni]

this..is not good. I want Congress to do what we believe it right for America, but I don't know how wise it is to pass legislation that a good majority of Americans do not want.

It's very good, as long as you don't intend to be elected again.

Hint, this poll shows you what a smart government would try to do.

Sixty-three percent (63%) of all voters say a better strategy to reform the health care system would be to pass smaller bills that address problems individually. Twenty-seven percent (27%) still think passing a comprehensive bill that covers all aspects of the health care system is a better idea. Eleven percent (11%) are undecided.

It's a rather nice election to be a Republican, really. No matter what the Democrats do now, they've already screwed up: if they pass the bill, they will be forcing their will on the people "for their own good", and come out as arrogant ******** who don't care about the will of the people and if they don't pass it their only major political project of two years will have utterly failed - even though they stacked the deck themselves.

McHrozni

 

[Thunder]

So, you don't care what sort of unmanageable mess this bill would make out of the health care industry if it were to pass; you only care what the political consequences would be for the Democratic party?

what makes you think I believe such a bill would make an unmanageable mess of the health care industry?

that's YOUR talking point, not mine.

 

[Neally]

Democrats should've figured it out after the 2nd or 3rd time the Republicans refused to come to the negotiation table. Instead, it's over a year and the Democrats are finally realizing that the GOP simply doesn't think there is a problem with health care, or they don't care.

Right that's why the Repubs haven't tried to pass any health care reform legislation, well except for H.R. 77; H.R. 109; H.R. 198; H.R. 270; H.R. 321; H.R. 464; H.R. 502; H.R. 544; H.R. 917; H.R. 1086; H.R. 1118; H.R. 1441; H.R. 1458; H.R. 1468; H.R. 1658; H.R. 1891; H.R. 2520; H.R. 2607; H.R. 2692; H.R. 2784; H.R. 2785; H.R. 2786; H.R. 2787; H.R. 3141; H.R. 3217; H.R. 3218; H.R. 3356; H.R. 3372; H.R. 3400; H.R. 3438; H.R. 3454; and H.R. 3478

 

[Bob Blaylock]

what makes you think I believe such a bill would make an unmanageable mess of the health care industry?

I don't think you have the faintest clue what the impact of this bill will be on the industry or the economy as a whole; and I don't think you care. The only concern you seem to have expressed is with regard to the political consequences.

 

[The True Scotsman]

Hint, this poll shows you what a smart government would try to do.

Sixty-three percent (63%) of all voters say a better strategy to reform the health care system would be to pass smaller bills that address problems individually. Twenty-seven percent (27%) still think passing a comprehensive bill that covers all aspects of the health care system is a better idea. Eleven percent (11%) are undecided.

So this statistic is out of 101%?

 

[drkitten]

So, you don't care what sort of unmanageable mess this bill would make out of the health care industry if it were to pass;

It is not the government's job to cozy up to industry at the expense of public interest.

No, no. Not in the slightest.

 

[Thunder]

I don't think you have the faintest clue what the impact of this bill will be on the industry or the economy as a whole; and I don't think you care.

well, its clear that unlike you, I believe that a healthier America is a stronger America.

and unlike you, I do not like the idea of 30 million Americans without health-insurance, and I wanna make sure all Americans who want insurance, can get it.

and unlike you, I do not believe in Predistination and Social-Darwinism.

 

[The True Scotsman]

well, its clear that unlike you, I believe that a healthier America is a stronger America.

and unlike you, I do not like the idea of 30 million Americans without health-insurance, and I wanna make sure all Americans who want insurance, can get it.

and unlike you, I do not believe in Predistination and Social-Darwinism.

Let's not get into the habit of painting with a broad brush.

 

[Frank Newgent]

People who want it are like Chuck Yeager in that scene in The Right Stuff, where his rocket plane is just...about...at the edge of space, he sees the wisps of cloud and atmosphere parting, with black and stars beyond, so close...so close...

But the gravity of horrible polls saying stop, you bastards, quickly yanks his plane back downward, and it spins out of control.

At this point, they're trying to decide whether to eject, like Yeager did, and let the ejection seat's rocket goop get under their helmet and burn the hell out of their faces, or to just ride with the plane straight into the ground out of spite.

Don't woory. Medicare will cover it.

 

[tyr_13]

This bill all seems so messy now. I'm not particularly a fan of complete socialized healthcare, but I do see the value in providing for those who would otherwise be unprovided for. I believe our current system does need revision, but not in the way that completely socializes it.

So... you're for this bill?

 

[McHrozni]

So this statistic is out of 101%?

I imagine this is due to a rounding error

McHrozni

 

[The True Scotsman]

So... you're for this bill?

To be honest, I'm not entirely certain what the bill is anymore. But, if its current form is the same as my preferences, then I suppose I'm for it. I realize that my original post might come off as me putting forth an opposing view, but actually I was simply stating my stand point on the issue of healthcare reform.

 

[Thunder]

um...the public option is dead. non-profit co-ops are now dead.

it is foolish and dishonest to still argue that the Democrats and Obama are trying to "Bolshevize" America's health care industry.

its just plain old fear-mongering and personal attacks.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Right that's why the Repubs haven't tried to pass any health care reform legislation, well except for H.R. 77; H.R. 109; H.R. 198; H.R. 270; H.R. 321; H.R. 464; H.R. 502; H.R. 544; H.R. 917; H.R. 1086; H.R. 1118; H.R. 1441; H.R. 1458; H.R. 1468; H.R. 1658; H.R. 1891; H.R. 2520; H.R. 2607; H.R. 2692; H.R. 2784; H.R. 2785; H.R. 2786; H.R. 2787; H.R. 3141; H.R. 3217; H.R. 3218; H.R. 3356; H.R. 3372; H.R. 3400; H.R. 3438; H.R. 3454; and H.R. 3478

Perhaps I should've specified that they stopped caring when Democrats took power.

 

[Beerina]

Whilst I think you should refrain from posting in any more healthcare threads until you have returned to the questions you have left unanswered (particularly concerning your signature) in all the others you've participated in over the past few years, I'm interested in this point.

What, exactly, do you mean by "exacerbate"? You don't even seem to think there's a problem with American healthcare provision, let alone that it needs substantial repair...

My concern is that whatever not slow down technological advancement, which adds up like compound interest, delaying treatments and cures further and further, costing more lives than "free" care would "save".

I believe I have addressed all the things you seem to think I haven't, again and again.

We saw hundreds of economic "experiments" involving billions of people over a hundred years recently that showed a correlation between freedom and rate of advancement.

Anybody trying to reduce profits would have one hell of a road to haul to demonstrate they won't slow development. I put it akin to someone claiming psychic powers exist.

Some skeptics, refusing to give up this last bastion of woo, demanded that I prove it. This is akin to a religious person demanding I prove God doesn't exist.

But very well, I did. I quickly dug up a study, wasn't hard to find, that correlated the rate of drug patents of drug companies with the relative freedom of the markets they sell into. US-based companies, of course, did best. Even French-based companies' patent rates were proportional to whether they just sold into France, the UE, or US as well.

So no, God doesn't exist.


And I do not believe things are majorly busted. And if I thought some things were, I would never have the gall to think I should remove freedom and force everybody into my "plan" just to fix it for a minority of people.

You've thus already erred in presuming there are major things that need fixing.



Since you think things need fixing, why don't you list them on the table? Then we can look at addressing them, and independently of the power grab to take over everything. Remember that "single-payer" was knocked off the table by us, not by you guys, even though you often play dumb and pretend that that is a red herring brought up -- by us?!?!?



So what things?



Low-income people?

Sick people/pre-existing conditions?

Young people who don't care?

Poor people who can't afford it but can afford a big screen HDTV and botox?

Hospitals who have a tough time keeping out of the red, especially in big cities, because of mandates they treat everybody (for emergencies, anyway) even if they can't pay?


I have a hard time believing any of those has a solution of "make everybody do it the Jesus' government's way!"

 

[leftysergeant]

I don't think you have the faintest clue what the impact of this bill will be on the industry or the economy as a whole; and I don't think you care. The only concern you seem to have expressed is with regard to the political consequences.

Actually, I am all for socializing the business and putting the obscene profits that the corporate fat cats make back in the pockets oif working people so that local businesses can thrive and create a few jobs here instead of in China.

 

[Random]

My concern is that whatever not slow down technological advancement, which adds up like compound interest, delaying treatments and cures further and further, costing more lives than "free" care would "save".

Not necessarily. The technological advance of healthcare will eventually stop regardless of how fast it advances. Once you get to the point where you can live as long as you want in whatever physical condition you want, that is the end of the road. Healthcare is a perfectable science.

The mathematics of compound interest don't really apply if there is an upper bound.

 

[Thunder]

as Nancy Pelosi said today, the time for talk and debate is over. its now time to act. the current Senate bill will be passed by the House, and then amended to meet the House' and Obama's new needs, and to throw in some GOP ideas. (see how nice we are?)