Health Care Bill Specifics with Translation

[The Painter]

Second, it includes shedloads of nonessential information, I imagine to confuse whoever tries to read it

See. You do understand.

 

[nescafe]

See. You do understand.

Indeed. I cannot imagine that the GOP healthcare committee would have a vested interest in using Obama's healthcare overhaul as a political football.

Let's dissect their plan, shall we?
(from http://blunt.house.gov/Read.aspx?ID=1171)

The House Republican health care plan is designed to:
• Make quality health care coverage affordable and accessible for every American, regardless of pre-existing health conditions.

Shockingly enough, the Democratic plan has the same goal.

• Protect Americans from being forced into a new government-run health care plan that would: a) eliminate the health care coverage that more than 100 million Americans currently receive through their job; b) limit your choice of doctors and medical treatment options; and c) result in the federal government taking control of your health care.

Last I checked, no-one was going to be forced into the govt. plan if they already has insurance. If their employers do not provide insurance, the Democratic plan will force their employers to offer insurance (either the public potion or private insurance), and I consider that to be a Good Thing, as it cuts down on freeloaders.

• Let Americans who like their health care coverage keep it, and give all Americans the freedom to choose the health plan that best meets their needs.

The Democratic plan does this as well.

• Ensure that medical decisions are made by patients and their doctors, not government bureaucrats.

As if the current scheme does not have a layer of insurance company bureaucrats making medical decisions right now. The Democratic plan at least has provisions that get rid of some of their excuses for denying coverage, and all things considered, I would prefer an impersonal layer of government bureaucrats to a layer of insurance company bureaucrats actively looking for a reason to deny claims.

• Improve Americans’ lives through effective prevention, wellness, and disease management programs, while developing new treatments and cures for life-threatening diseases.

Are there any reasons that the Democratic plan will not encourage the above goals?

The House Republican health care plan will:
• Change federal laws to help families keep their health insurance regardless of a change or loss of a job, and encourages new and existing local programs to ensure all Americans have access to affordable health care.

The Democratic plan also does this, just not using the same mechanisms the Republican plan probably would.

• Give states the tools to design innovative programs that make health care coverage more affordable for everyone.

I cannot speak to this, I do not know enough about what the Democratic health care plan would to at the level of the states.

• Let small businesses band together to purchase high-quality health care for their employees at a more affordable price, just as large corporations and unions do.

This seems like a reasonable provision, but I do not think they could get the same economies of scale that a public plan could without a miracle of community organizing on the part of the small business community.

• Make it easier for Americans to find a health plan that fits their needs by using easy to understand health-plan finders for those Americans working in jobs that don’t offer health benefits.

The Democratic plan does this by creating the public plan.

• Focus on prevention and wellness programs to help avoid serious – and costly – illnesses.

Focus on prevention is all well and good, but that still does not help if you are too uninsured to see a doctor to do so. I have not examined the Democratic health care plan in sufficient detail, but there probably is one -- it is a good policy in general.

• Rein in junk lawsuits that make health care more expensive for everyone.

An awesome principal, and one I am in favor of, but the devil is in the details.

• Improve Medicare and Medicaid by rooting out waste, fraud, and abuse that costs taxpayers billions of dollars every year.

Also a good principle, but what instances of fraud, abuse, and waste are they talking about? Medicare and Medicaid already have very low overheads, and are artificially crippled in at least one instance -- collective bargaining for lower drug prices.

• Continue to encourage the development of advances in treatment that help people live longer, healthier lives, while the Democratic plan will shut down research into new cures.

Precisely how does the Democratic plan shut down research into new cures?

My overall assessment: Republican opposition to the Democratic plan is a political football game -- the Democratic plan and the Republican plan have similar overarching goals (covering more Americans, getting rid of preexisting conditions clauses, etc), and where they differ it is more ideology driven (where not outright FUD).

 

[linusrichard]

Several years ago when the Democrats said Bush and the Republicans were going to cut Social Security and kill old people did you believe that? When it was said the Republicans were going to cut school lunch budget and kill children, did you believe that?

So you're saying BAC is lying?

 

[Rolfe]

Bump again for BeAChooser, because he's been actively posting very recently....

Rolfe.

 

[INRM]

If that's true that they want to do everything they can to make sure small companies will not self-insure that is effectively deliberately trying to destroy private health-care.

If it's true that they want people to have to have a card for the national healthcare, it could be potentially developed into a national ID card.

The fact that they want to eliminate any ability to appeal a decision regarding the government's choices to insure, that is a serious problem.


INRM

 

[Dymanic]

If that's true that they want to do everything they can to make sure small companies will not self-insure that is effectively deliberately trying to destroy private health-care.

Clearly based on a lack of understanding of what is meant by "self insure" (and to whom it applies). Didn't we cover this?

 

[boloboffin]

No need to bump for BAC. Knowing him, he was hoping to be first on the enemies list.

 

[Piggy]

Several years ago when the Democrats said Bush and the Republicans were going to cut Social Security and kill old people did you believe that? When it was said the Republicans were going to cut school lunch budget and kill children, did you believe that?

No.

 

[Piggy]

So this is where we are on healthcare.

Nowhere.

Doubtcasting and mob action has worked its work.

Y'all can dispute and dismiss all you want, but the sad truth is that the obstructionist strategy has worked.

As for me, I'd like to see some serious (that is, responsible) opposing input into the Democratic proposals.

Unfortunately, that's not what we're getting.

And I'm afraid what we're going to wind up with instead is the Democratic proposal + appeasement to the nutjob faction, which will result in a worse policy rather than a better one.

Good God, where are the grownups when we need them?

 

[SezMe]

Here is a line-by-line, lie-by-lie analysis of the right-wing health care talking points.

 

[nescafe]

Here is a line-by-line, lie-by-lie analysis of the right-wing health care talking points.

Awesome link, thanks.

 

[Rolfe]

Do you really think the bill won't pass, then? It seems a shame.

Rolfe.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

I've also read research indicating that a lot of people who wish for pain relief, even if it increases their chance of earlier death when facing potentially terminal illnesses, have their wishes ignored quite often in ICU's.
There are apparently loads of people having slow, excruciatingly painful deaths who stated beforehand that they mostly just want pain relief and to not suffer.

Certainly not the case at my hospital. We do all sorts of hand-and-foot, and comfort care. There's a Hospice House nearby where people can go if they are terminal and be medicated enough to keep pain to a minimum.

ICU is for healing and recovery, and if a patient's stated wishes conflict with what might improve their health and bring them back up, they will indeed be dealing with pain and discomfort.

I don't understand the expectations that some have when they go to a hospital. They want to be seen first every time, be able to pick and choose the course of their treatment, act as if they know more about medicine than the staff. ... and the ICU is not the place for drugging people into a painless coma; we have oaths and there are laws against keeping people doped up. Yah, that halo is uncomfortable. The Foley catheter hurts. It's embarrassing to be washed and to poop into a pan. But that's what you should expect when a car goes through a red light and T-bones yours. It's gonna hurt, and there will be a loss of privacy, and just because nurse so-n-so let you have this-or-that in such-and-such way at some other time doesn't mean that's the way it will be here. I could go on and on but

 

[Monketi Ghost]

Vot de heck? Ve got

tags, ven did dis happen

 

[quixotecoyote]

My favorite nutjob yet.

The healthcare plan is deliberate racist population control through infanticide and euthanasia.

http://www.blackinformant.com/commentary/obamacare-dont-get-too-old

I wrote a comment calling it ******** but since it's moderated I doubt it will be posted.

 

[quixotecoyote]

I don't understand the expectations that some have when they go to a hospital. ... Yah, that halo is uncomfortable. The Foley catheter hurts. It's embarrassing to be washed and to poop into a pan.

At the risk of a derail, I would imagine the latter portion would somewhat explain the unreasonableness of the former portion.

 

[Dymanic]

ICU is for healing and recovery, and if a patient's stated wishes conflict with what might improve their health and bring them back up, they will indeed be dealing with pain and discomfort.

Sorta like a barbershop is for haircuts, and if you hang around there long enough you're going to end up getting a haircut whether you want one or not?

 

[Rolfe]

My favorite nutjob yet.

The healthcare plan is deliberate racist population control through infanticide and euthanasia.

http://www.blackinformant.com/commentary/obamacare-dont-get-too-old

I wrote a comment calling it ******** but since it's moderated I doubt it will be posted.

It's in there, give them that credit.

I never saw so much paranoid lunacy. Is this a special American thing? Or are there people like that in Scotland and I just don't get to meet them?

Rolfe.

 

[quixotecoyote]

It's in there, give them that credit.

True enough. If I could do it over again I'd delete the last sentence, but I was somewhat offended by the time I got done reading it and lost some points on tact.

I never saw so much paranoid lunacy. Is this a special American thing? Or are there people like that in Scotland and I just don't get to meet them?
Rolfe.

Might be more of it around here, but I've heard some rumors about BNP supporters being pretty nuts on occasion. Don't know how much of that is up in your neck of the woods.

 

[Rolfe]

Don't get many of them round here. Of course, there may be equally few of your sort of nuts, it's just that we get pointed to their web sites. However, this parnoid insanity seems to be rearing its head more and more.

Rolfe.