Head of Globovision faces arrest again

McHrozni

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The report came in three hours ago, and wasn't posted before, and we could use just one more Venezuela thread :)

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/06/12/venezuela.media.arrest/index.html?hpt=T2

The Venezuelan government has issued an arrest warrant against the president of one of the last independent TV stations in that country.

Guillermo Zuloaga, president of Globovision, is accused of illegally storing vehicles with the intent to sell them for a profit, the government said Saturday. His son, also named Guillermo, is also wanted.

As I recall he owned a car dealership in addition to the TV station. If this is still true, I do wonder how he's supposed to run it without storing cars and selling them for profit.

I'm sure DC will be all over this :)

Edit: from AP:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100612/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_venezuela_anti_chavez_tv

In a June 3 speech, Chavez took issue with the fact that Zuloaga wasn't in jail in spite of the pending case against him for his remarks in Aruba.
"He's walking around free," Chavez said. "That only happens here in Venezuela. Let Zuloaga go to any other country and say the president ordered someone killed and let's see what happens. They'd put him in jail immediately."

Hm. I guess he never heard of Freedom of Speech principle being applied, well, anywhere. I'll put it under stundies.

McHrozni
 
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McHrozni said:
The report came in three hours ago, and wasn't posted before, and we could use just one more Venezuela thread :)

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/06/12/venezuela.media.arrest/index.html?hpt=T2

The Venezuelan government has issued an arrest warrant against the president of one of the last independent TV stations in that country.

Guillermo Zuloaga, president of Globovision, is accused of illegally storing vehicles with the intent to sell them for a profit, the government said Saturday. His son, also named Guillermo, is also wanted.

As I recall he owned a car dealership in addition to the TV station. If this is still true, I do wonder how he's supposed to run it without storing cars and selling them for profit.

I'm sure DC will be all over this :)

McHrozni
Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_in_Venezuela
 
Let Zuloaga go to any other country and say the president ordered someone killed and let's see what happens. They'd put him in jail immediately."
Click to expand...

in Switzerland he could get up to 3 years jail.
 
DC said:
http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/311_0/a174.html
Click to expand...

Even if we ignore the fact this is a piece of slander which would be extremely difficult if not impossible to apply to this case, I'd still like to see the provision of extraterritoriality for this specific law: that it is prosecutable in Switzerland, even if the slander is committed elsewhere.

If there isn't any (and I'm quite sure there isn't), you just proved your hero Hugo Chavez wrong. Again.

McHrozni
 
McHrozni said:
Even if we ignore the fact this is a piece of slander which would be extremely difficult if not impossible to apply to this case, I'd still like to see the provision of extraterritoriality for this specific law: that it is prosecutable in Switzerland, even if the slander is committed elsewhere.

If there isn't any (and I'm quite sure there isn't), you just proved your hero Hugo Chavez wrong. Again.

McHrozni
Click to expand...

well it sure doesn't apply when the Criminal defamation happened outside Switzerland. It would be hard if not impossible to prove Criminal defamation if it happened in Switzerland.

and btw, i think Chavez is wrong in abusing the criminal defamation laws for political reassons.
 
DC said:
well it sure doesn't apply when the Criminal defamation happened outside Switzerland. It would be hard if not impossible to prove Criminal defamation if it happened in Switzerland.
Click to expand...

Well then, since the said remarks took place in Aruba and not in Venezuela, I'm sure you'll agree your vain attempt at defending him was a red herring.

and btw, i think Chavez is wrong in abusing the criminal defamation laws for political reassons.
Click to expand...

Of course he is wrong there and elsewhere, just as you're wrong in using logical fallacies in defending him.

McHrozni
 
McHrozni said:
Well then, since the said remarks took place in Aruba and not in Venezuela, I'm sure you'll agree your vain attempt at defending him was a red herring.



Of course he is wrong there and elsewhere, just as you're wrong in using logical fallacies in defending him.

McHrozni
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i'm not defending him :) sorry to disappoint you.

have you read the article i linked to?
 
DC said:
i'm not defending him :) sorry to disappoint you.
Click to expand...

Except that you used a red herring to imply Hugo isn't doing anything special.

have you read the article i linked to?
Click to expand...

I have. It's a piece of truly poor journalism that doesn't merit a second glance. Why?

McHrozni
 
McHrozni said:
Except that you used a red herring to imply Hugo isn't doing anything special.



I have. It's a piece of truly poor journalism that doesn't merit a second glance. Why?

McHrozni
Click to expand...

the sad thing is, it is indeed nothing special, it is done all over the world.
you just didn't know until you read that Chavez is doing it.
 
Criminal Defamation Fact Sheet
• Of the 168 countries reviewed, 158 had criminal defamation laws of some sort, whilst only 10 countries had only civil defamation laws.
• At least 146 people are being imprisoned globally. This can be broken down regionally as follows:
  • Africa 41
  • Americas 8
  • Asia and Oceania 35
  • Europe and Central Asia 22
  • Middle East and North Africa 40
Click to expand...
http://www.article19.org/advocacy/defamationmap/overview.html
 
DC said:
the sad thing is, it is indeed nothing special, it is done all over the world.
you just didn't know until you read that Chavez is doing it.
Click to expand...

Ehm, do I need to lecture you about extraterritoriality principle yet again?

Aside from Venezuela, which countries prosecute people for such heinous crime committed outside of their borders?
I'm sure such paragons of democracy like Iran, North Korea and Myanmar do, but very few others Which essentially proves my point. Again.

McHrozni
 
DC said:
what exactly in the article did you dislike?
Click to expand...

I'll just list the most glaring 6 things, the list is not meant to be exhaustive.

- 1st paragraph is a red herring. Irresponsible journalism or not, it is a fact this falls under freedom of the press, and since this is the only media dissident presently in Venezuela, it would be irresponsible to try to stop it, even if it is overblown.
- 6th paragraph another red herring, and a big one this time. It doesn't matter if other states in the region abuse similar laws in a similar way, the fact it Hugo is abusing the laws to stifle dissident. This is the theme of the article, not how Hugo compares with the rest.
- The article defends Hugo over arrest of an "irresponsible journalist", yet it also attacks Ecuador over a similar incident. Internal inconsistency is one of the hallmarks of both poor journalism and those that defend Hugo.
- 8th paragraph: an ad hominem. It doesn't matter if the same people exaggerate some things about Hugo in some places, their criticism of this particular incident needs to be examined on it's own merit. This doesn't even address the issue in place.
- 9th paragraph: again, a red herring. Even if Honduras has it's own similar flaws, this does not imply Venezuela should or could too.
- Same paragraph, it also doesn't matter in the slightest if the current Venezuelan government had the same problems in the past. They're abusing them now. At best, this means they're no better than the oppressors of the past - but those didn't have the apologists like this writer.

McHrozni
 
McHrozni said:
Ehm, do I need to lecture you about extraterritoriality principle yet again?

Aside from Venezuela, which countries prosecute people for such heinous crime committed outside of their borders?
I'm sure such paragons of democracy like Iran, North Korea and Myanmar do, but very few others Which essentially proves my point. Again.

McHrozni
Click to expand...

I just checked our laws.

http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/311_0/a6.html
http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/311_0/a7.html
http://www.curacao-law.com/2005/11/...e-laws-of-aruba-and-the-netherlands-antilles/

when it is also against the laws in the country it happened, then you can get jailed for it.
 
McHrozni said:
I'll just list the most glaring 6 things, the list is not meant to be exhaustive.

- 1st paragraph is a red herring. Irresponsible journalism or not, it is a fact this falls under freedom of the press, and since this is the only media dissident presently in Venezuela, it would be irresponsible to try to stop it, even if it is overblown.
- 6th paragraph another red herring, and a big one this time. It doesn't matter if other states in the region abuse similar laws in a similar way, the fact it Hugo is abusing the laws to stifle dissident. This is the theme of the article, not how Hugo compares with the rest.
- The article defends Hugo over arrest of an "irresponsible journalist", yet it also attacks Ecuador over a similar incident. Internal inconsistency is one of the hallmarks of both poor journalism and those that defend Hugo.
- 8th paragraph: an ad hominem. It doesn't matter if the same people exaggerate some things about Hugo in some places, their criticism of this particular incident needs to be examined on it's own merit. This doesn't even address the issue in place.
- 9th paragraph: again, a red herring. Even if Honduras has it's own similar flaws, this does not imply Venezuela should or could too.
- Same paragraph, it also doesn't matter in the slightest if the current Venezuelan government had the same problems in the past. They're abusing them now. At best, this means they're no better than the oppressors of the past - but those didn't have the apologists like this writer.

McHrozni
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huh? you should read more articles of this writer, he in no way defends Chavez nor is he pro-chavez.

He is also against those laws.
that may be freedom of the press in your country, but it isnt everywhere.
 
DC said:
huh? you should read more articles of this writer, he in no way defends Chavez nor is he pro-chavez.
Click to expand...

So? The article is written in that way.

that may be freedom of the press in your country, but it isnt everywhere.
Click to expand...

I know it isn't. Venezuela is one such case.

McHrozni
 
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