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He doesn't know if it is torture...

ponderingturtle said:
So you agree with the president that habis corpus does not apply to non citizens unless we want it to?
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That has never been the position of the president. The position is that it doesn't apply to enemies captured in a war, and I agree with that.
 
headscratcher4 said:
Funny, I would imagine, like McCain, the military guys might call it training to stand up to torture.
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It's part of their training to withstand interrogation techniques that might be used on them. It's not as if we can train them to withstand what will actually be used on them - snipping off fingers, breaking bones, pulling out teeth, plucking out eyes, mutilating genitalia... but that's all the same as waterboarding of course.
 
Suggestologist said:
There's a difference in that they know they won't really be drowned.
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As does everyone we capture by now, unless they really did live in a cave. In fact, that's probably why it is so rarely (if ever) used any more - the cat's out of the bag.
 
DaChew said:
If it is torture and it is illegal then why is it used on U.S. troops as part of their training?
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Wow, do you need someone to spell everything out for you?

Why is it illegal for someone to punch you in the face as hard as they can, if boxing is legal?
 
JoeEllison said:
Why is it illegal for someone to punch you in the face as hard as they can, if boxing is legal?
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That's just stupid.

BTW, in the Sibel Edmonds thread you claimed that government whistleblowers are whisked off to a foreign prison and tortured. Are you ever going to back up that claim? :rolleyes:
 
BTW, can all the torture experts here clarify which techniques are torture?

- air conditioning on high

- air conditioning off in a hot climate

- rock music played 24/7

- lights on 24/7
 
I was about to write a long post about how I think simulated drowning is ok, but then I imagined a guy, mistakenly accused of being a terrorist, going through simulated drowning again and again, day after day. That would be horrible, especially since he would have no useful information...hence they would continue the precedure till he told them...who knows what. The possibility of doing this to an innocent person is just too much. We cant do this in the USA.
 
WildCat said:
That has never been the position of the president. The position is that it doesn't apply to enemies captured in a war, and I agree with that.
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There's this little thing called the "Geneva Conventions" that I think you haven't heard about.

But hey, they don't care about international law, so why should we? Right?
 
fishbob said:
Abuse of prisoners is wrong.
Nitpicking the details is stupid.
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One would think that the fact that Wildcat even has to try and pick those sorts of nits would indicate to him that something is really, really wrong with his position.
 
Cleon said:
One would think that the fact that Wildcat even has to try and pick those sorts of nits would indicate to him that something is really, really wrong with his position.
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Not nitpickiung at all. If waterboarding is torture, then what about the other things? Does it have to be simply making someone fear for their life, as has been stipulated in this thread? Many people fear for their lives when they go to prison, is this also torture? You all claim it is simple to figure out, so elaborate on that.
 
fishbob said:
Abuse of prisoners is wrong.
Nitpicking the details is stupid.
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The topic is torture, not abuse. Is all abuse torture fishbob? Is food that is not tasty enough abuse, and therefore torture? Isn't any sort of confinement "abuse"? Are all interrogations that don't rely on "pretty please with sugar on top" abuse and torture?

The point I'm making is that many here seem to stretch the definition of torture to include things that are not torture, in order for some to make the claim "we're just as bad as the guys who actually do torture" - mutilate genitalia, burn with cigarettes or electricity, pull out fingernails, snip off fingers, beheading those in view of others, plucking out eyes, etc etc.
 
WildCat said:
The point I'm making is that many here seem to stretch the definition of torture to include things that are not torture,
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And the reality is that what you (and the Bush administration) are doing is redefining torture to mean something other than torture, just so they can get away with doing it.
 
WildCat said:
It's part of their training to withstand interrogation techniques that might be used on them. It's not as if we can train them to withstand what will actually be used on them - snipping off fingers, breaking bones, pulling out teeth, plucking out eyes, mutilating genitalia... but that's all the same as waterboarding of course.
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Nice. Nice slippery slope. You can slice and dice it (literally) all you want. The fact that it doesn't take a limb-off? Is that the measure? Well, attaching eletrodes to their gonads doesn't take a limb off...maybe can be used without permanent damage. Not torture? What about Rape? The victim can walk away, a little soap and water and ointment, all gone...not torture?

Maybe making them stand naked and posing them in sexually explicit positions? Not torture or abuse, of course, no limbs were lost...may not even blood.

I think it is great that is the game we are playing. Well, their not citizens, so we can make em' feel like their drowning, as long we don't snip body parts off.

Oh, and, so what if most analyst say that it isn't a very effective technique...unless you just want a confession.

The point is to countence this practice is to bring disrepute on who we are as a people and to undermine the values that the President argues we must defend against the Islamofacist onslought. But hey, if it worked for the Nazi's and Khemer Rouge and Beria, there must be some value to it.
 
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