He Died to Save Us From Our Sins. Huh?

[Deranged]

Any time I ask a Christian what this statement means, they "explain" it and then it makes even Less sense than before. Maybe they've memorized what they consider to be an answer. Some will say, "Jesus asked God , "why have you forsaken me?" (when they're supposed to be the same diety), some say Jesus wept blood in the garden before he was captured by the Romans,
no one says "He went willingly" and they All get this "I have to answer her question but she won't get it anymore than I do" look on their face. A very popular phrase is, "He paid the price for our sins." What does that mean?
Sort of suspicious that most people in church have blue hair.
So Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins--the ones committed before the crucifixion or the ones in 2009? And if we are indeed "saved" from them, how does that benefit the sinner (who, we're told, include every single person)? Deranged

 

[Professor Yaffle]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atonement

All clear now?

 

[Lanzy]

Well, if the price is paid, why do I have to do anything else?

 

[MattC]

Well, if the price is paid, why do I have to do anything else?

Transportation costs.

~ Matt

 

[HeyLeroy]

It's easy.

Yahweh is insane.

He was so ticked off at us that he was about to destroy the planet, but decided to give us one more chance.

So he sent his only son down here to teach us The Way.

And we tortured and murdered him.

That made insane Sky Daddy happy.

 

[the_smasher]

Well, if the price is paid, why do I have to do anything else?

I'm sure there are lots of different answers to this, but I was taught that you had to "accept the gift" by having faith in JC.

 

[Nonpareil]

Faith-based salvation is idiotic. If any religion has any truth to it at all, and the god involved truly is omnibenevolent, I'm pretty sure he'll be works-based. No faith required. Just be good.
Because a truly all-loving god would recognize and forgive the fact that not everyone could hear his gospel, and that his creation was imperfect, but he would love them for their imperfections as much as for their possible perfections.
Too bad no religion is, when you get down to it, like this.

 

[Marduk]

Too bad no religion is, when you get down to it, like this.

An oft-cited feature of pantheism is that each individual human, being part of the Universe or nature, is part of God. One issue discussed by pantheists is how free will may exist in this framework. In answer, the following analogy is sometimes given (particularly by classical pantheists): "you are to God as an individual blood cell in your vein is to you." The analogy further maintains that while a cell may be aware of its own environs, and even has some choices (free will) between right and wrong (killing a bacterium, becoming malignant, or perhaps just doing nothing, among countless others), it likely has little conception of the greater being of which it is a part. Another way to understand this relationship is through the Hindu phrase, tat tvam asi - "that thou art", wherein the human soul/self or Atman is understood to be the same as God or Brahman - only people do not realize it.

 

[Soapy Sam]

Faith-based salvation is idiotic. If any religion has any truth to it at all, and the god involved truly is omnibenevolent, I'm pretty sure he'll be works-based. No faith required. Just be good.
Because a truly all-loving god would recognize and forgive the fact that not everyone could hear his gospel, and that his creation was imperfect, but he would love them for their imperfections as much as for their possible perfections.
Too bad no religion is, when you get down to it, like this.

The Inquisition has a word for heretics like you.
Hamburger.

 

[kurious_kathy]

Any time I ask a Christian what this statement means, they "explain" it and then it makes even Less sense than before. Maybe they've memorized what they consider to be an answer. Some will say, "Jesus asked God , "why have you forsaken me?" (when they're supposed to be the same diety), some say Jesus wept blood in the garden before he was captured by the Romans,
no one says "He went willingly" and they All get this "I have to answer her question but she won't get it anymore than I do" look on their face. A very popular phrase is, "He paid the price for our sins." What does that mean?
Sort of suspicious that most people in church have blue hair.
So Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins--the ones committed before the crucifixion or the ones in 2009? And if we are indeed "saved" from them, how does that benefit the sinner (who, we're told, include every single person)? Deranged

Hey deranged, your name says a lot. We are all deranged because of sin, that's why we need a Savior. We are all messed up because of the fall in the Garden of Eden, so Jesus was the only one that could redeem what was lost the moment people rebelled from obeying God. None of us like to admit we are sinners, but deep down we all know it's TRUE!

Also the only way we can be forgiven is to accept Christ for who he really is, and what he accomplished on Calvary. We were the ones that put Jesus on that cross, he bore all our sins beause he was the only one that could! Don't you see?

 

[arthwollipot]

And another non-explanation from kathy.

Try this one. Jesus voluntarily took the blame for all of our sins, and accepted the punishment on our behalf. That's it in a nutshell.

So now, we sinners don't need to be punished, right?

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Any time I ask a Christian what this statement means, they "explain" it and then it makes even Less sense than before.

This was probably the issue that first led me to be a skeptic. The whole thing just doesn’t make sense.

I regularly work with business and computer processes. We have to establish definitions, requirements, and business rules; and diagram contexts, functions, components, and process flows. For the whole “Jesus died for our sins” process, I can’t even imagine how this would be done.

In what possible way would the death of a son of a god relate to forgiveness of people’s sins? And how does it work? Can’t the Pope or somebody give me a nice flowchart that shows when and where sins are forgiven and what components of belief or whatever are required to follow certain paths?

If I turned in the kind of wishy-washy crap that all Christian religions have turned in for the “value of Jesus died for our sins”, it would certainly be rejected, and I think I would probably be fired.

Of course the whole “Jesus dying for a cause” makes sense if you look at Jesus as a political activist who was executed for challenging the established temple/state and inspiring a change to people. Of course the whole “died for your sins” stuff is just an extension of “died for your salvation” where “salvation” meant Jews free from Rome. Carry it forward a couple thousand years--it is like the game “telephone”; you get a bunch of nonsense at the end.

 

[AdinDraco]

Why did God need a blood sacrifice to excuse us from a rule that he made! Is an omnipotent superbeing unable to change a system that he set up in the first place? Do I also need to reject the EVIL of a being that would punish us forever for the actions of others who were, at the time of the transgression, totally innocent? I just listened (again) to a fantastic rant today by Matt Dilahunty - Atheist Experience #607. Go about 1 hr, 6 min in (the whole episode is worth listening to).

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

We are all deranged because of sin, that's why we need a Savior. We are all messed up because of the fall in the Garden of Eden, so Jesus was the only one that could redeem what was lost the moment people rebelled from obeying God. Also the only way we can be forgiven is to accept Christ for who he really is.

How does something determine if a person has or has not accepted "Christ for who he really is"? What is the component that makes the determination? What are the functional requirement specifications for the determination of "accepted Christ for who he really is"?

 

[six7s]

We are all deranged because of sin

Please, describe a sin

Also the only way we can be forgiven is to accept Christ for who he really is

A probably exaggerated, possibly fictitious character from a series of old stories

and what he accomplished on Calvary

He died.

Woop

De

Do

Is that really such an accomplishment?

We were the ones that put Jesus on that cross

Waddaya mean 'we', kimosabe?

Don't you see?

My vision is limited to objects that generate, bend and/or reflect light.

Hallucinations don't count - sorry

 

[arthwollipot]

He died.

Woop

De

Do

Is that really such an accomplishment?

Especially since the bastard didn't even stay dead.

 

[six7s]

Especially since the bastard didn't even stay dead.

Well... yeah...

...probably exaggerated, possibly fictitious...

 

[stevea]

It's easy.
Yahweh is insane.
He was so ticked off at us that he was about to destroy the planet, but decided to give us one more chance.
So he sent his only son down here to teach us The Way.
And we tortured and murdered him.
That made insane Sky Daddy happy.

I concur, and I enjoyed the way you stated this ridiculous proposition, Leroy. Removing some of the condescension, no one can explain the "balance of payments" in this story - it makes no sense.

 

[Beanbag]

Jesus had a bad weekend for your sins.

Beanbag

 

[~enigma~]

None of us like to admit we are sinners, but deep down we all know it's TRUE!

How can an atheist who doesn't believe in god or sin (or pink unicorns either) know he is a sinner when the concept is pure mythology to him? Christians are still making stuff up today I see. You are the reason for John 11:35.