Has the TSA ever saved the day?

zaphod2016 said:
Forgive me if I'm being naive, but if the TSA isn't there to thwart active attempts at attacks, then, uh... why are they there?
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The point was that the mere presence of a security measure can decrease the frequency of attempted attacks. Measuring only attacks that were thwarted with that security measure doesn't tell you what you want to know (how big an impact on security the particular measure has), because in the absence of any particular security measure, other attacks might have been attempted and might have succeeded, but instead never got executed and so don't get measured.
 
leftysergeant said:
They just intercepted a bomb in Yemen and one in New York. Let's wait and see whether any part of TSA was involved in the intercept.

Apparently the system is working as well now as it did under Clinton and better than it did under the merry morons who ran it between 2001 and 2009.
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They discovered those from a tip by Saudi intelligence, not by fondling someone's genitals.
 
The Skeptical Guide to the Universe interviewed Bruce Schneier, an "airport security expert". He discusses what works and what doesn't. He thinks that what they are doing in Israel (what they do works) can't necessarily be done here because the US is huge in comparison but what we are doing now wastes a lot of time. Here is the link to the show.
 
WildCat said:
Simple metal detectors are enough to detect the weapons used on 9/11, only problem is small knives were allowed on board then. I'm not aware of any hijackings in the US that metal detectors would not have prevented, but genital groping would have.
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Heck, since 9/11 nobody is going to hijack a airliner with a knife, or even a gun, unless they manage to kill every person capable of resistance. The belief that you might live by obeying a hijacker has been soundly debunked. Hijacking really isn't an issue anymore.

Bombs on the other hand....
 
zaphod2016 said:
but I also have no doubt I could drop a fool with a boxcutter long before we approached any cities filled with innocents.
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And you need a gun for this? No True AmericanTM would need a weapon to stop a "fool with a boxcutter." See September 11, 2001.

Next question: Do you mind if a Muslim gets on board with a very large gun and a prayer rug? When do you shoot him: On his way to the bathroom or after he blows out the hatch?

Don't get me wrong, much of what passes for "security" is more properly labeled "security theater" but your arguments against it lack any logical grounding.

And what is up with all the groping accusations? I fly all the time with my family and have only rarely been wand searched, much less hand searched. Is this really common?
 
zaphod2016 said:
Still looking for an example of a violent crime prevent by the TSA.
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No you're not. It has been pointed out to you that prevention includes plots that were not initiated due to the preventive measures and you have not accepted those.

You are looking for specific attempts at terrorism only thwarted in the narrow area between the counter and the gate. I know many weapons have been confiscated in this area, but I am not aware that anyone has been convicted as a terrorist in connection with such confiscations.

See NATO and ignition lock analogies above.
 
Dr. Keith said:
No you're not. It has been pointed out to you that prevention includes plots that were not initiated due to the preventive measures and you have not accepted those.
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I am trying to test a theory, the theory being "The TSA helps keep us safe"

I understand "plots that were not initiated due to the preventive measures" is theoretically possible, but how can we objectively measure such a thing? Can you offer a specific example where someone didn't commit a crime because of the TSA? And how can you know they didn't commit this crime because of the police, or FBI, or a dozen other law enforcement agencies also working to keep us safe from terrorism?

How would we compare the effectiveness of the TSA to that of another agency? How can we understand which method of law enforcement is most effective?

I'm looking for a concrete example, not theory, not opinion, but some cold hard facts.

Skeptical, ya dig? Seeking evidence to confirm or debunk a theory. Political agendas are irrelevant to this point.

EDIT: Let's make this even more reasonable. Surely the TSA have intercepted some dangerous materials? A bomb? Bomb components? Something? What about the shoe bomber guy, didn't the TSA catch him?

I'm not being unreasonable here, just looking for solid proof.
 
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