Hariri dead in assasination

[zenith-nadir]

Reading isn't your strong suit, apparently.

I guess that's not an ad hom either.

I didn't say "a terrorist group was behind it."

The evidence seems to be leaning towards this "Victory and Jihad" group being behind it.

...er...ah...you just said you didn't say that.

I said, and again I quote, that "indications seem to be that Syria isn't behind the bombing."

Evidence? So far you have provided zero evidence of anything except your endless opinions.

Which I stand by, and is entirely consistent with the possibility that Syria may have done this.

I thought the terror group you said wasn't behind the bombing was behind the bombing. Now I am confused.

That's not an ad-hom. An ad-hom would be saying "you can't listen to the evidence, you idiot." Characterizing your refusal to consider any evidence beyond what you've already decided in a negative fashion is not an ad-hom.

You are like a petulant child who always has to be right and have the last word...whether you are right or wrong. I have based my opinion and referenced the basis of my opinion with links and statements from officials in the region and past histories. How about when you have some evidence to back up your endless opinions then you can rejoin the thread. Sound fair? Otherwise you are just polluting this thread with your ego.


[edited to add]

Bomb wounds Lebanese minister who resigned over Syrian domination - Friday October 01, 2004

(AP) A Lebanese minister who resigned in a dispute over Syria's domination of the country was wounded in a Beirut car bombing.

Outgoing Economy and Trade Minister Marwan Hamadeh's bodyguard was killed and his driver wounded in the blast, which occurred at 9:05 am (0605 GMT) near his home on the Mediterranean seafront of the Lebanese capital.

Hamadeh, whose mother in French, is one of four ministers who quit on September 6 to protest a controversial Syrian-inspired constitutional amendment that kept Lahoud, a Damascus protege, as head of state for another three years.

Coincidence or Conspiracy? You decide.

 

[Cleon]

Now I am confused.

Obviously. Let me explain in short words, then.

I don't know if Syria or "Victory and Jihad" is behind the bombing. Of course, neither do YOU, but it'll be a cold day in hell when you admit to not knowing something.

I have not claimed that they are behind it. Any claims you make saying that I did claim such a thing are either due to poor reading comprehension on your part or strawmen.

There is zero evidence that Syria is behind it. Zero. Nada. None. Zilch. "Who would want Hariri dead" is not evidence, it is supposition. If you were a good cop, to use your phrase, you'd realize that motive alone is not good enough reason for an arrest, much less conviction.

However, this group has claimed responsibility. That's a pretty strong bit of evidence there, whether you like it or not. It's not a certainty, no, groups have claimed responsibility for things others have done before. Nonetheless, it was pretty soon after the bombing that this video went all over AlJazeera.

Therefore, the evidence seems to indicate that this group is behind it. Because there is one rather important piece of evidence in favor of it, to absolutely no evidence behind Syria's involvement beyond your say-so. That doesn't mean beyond a doubt VAJ is behind it, that means that the evidence is leaning in that direction. As I said.

See? Not rocket science, not incredible leaps of logic, it's called "following where the evidence leads." You might want to try it sometime.

You are like a petulant child who always has to be right and have the last word...whether you are right or wrong. I have based my opinion and referenced the basis of my opinion with links and statements from officials in the region and past histories. How about when you have some evidence to back up your endless opinions then you can rejoin the thread. Sound fair? Otherwise you are just polluting this thread with your ego.

Ad homs are the tool of the loser.

 

[zenith-nadir]

Obviously. Let me explain in short words, then. Blah...blah...blah...blah....blah..

TRANSLATION: Look at me everyone! Look at me! I am right! I am right! I am important! I am important! Shut up Zenith! Shut up Zenith!

 

[Cleon]

TRANSLATION: Look at me everyone! Look at me! I am right! I am right! I am important! I am important! Shut up Zenith! Shut up Zenith!

Oh, good, just as long as you're able to look at this rationally.

 

[zenith-nadir]

However, this group has claimed responsibility. That's a pretty strong bit of evidence there, whether you like it or not.

Ok, You've convinced me Cleon..the "evidence" is a previously unheard of group showed up on Al Jazeera and said they did it...the "motive" was they hate the Saudis.....ergo they decided to assasinate the former Lebanese Prime Minister....how cunning of them... that'll teach those Saudis a lesson they'll never forget...

 

[Skeptic]

I, for one, have no idea how they can keep track of all those groups. How can you tell if somebody is from "Lebanese Victory and Jihad" and not from their arch-rivals, "Jihad victory in Lebanon"?

Monty Python's "Judean People's Front" & co. made fun of this back in the 70s, but I still think the best characterization of it is by Efraim Kishon, the late satirist, who once wrote about what would happen if Quaddafi demanded the nobel prize for literature or else stop the oil supply. Among other things, a string of bombings in European capitals was traced to a new group, "Palestinian Youths for Literary Justice".

 

[zenith-nadir]

Lebanese Vent Anger on Syria After Hariri Killing - Tue, Feb 15, 2005

BEIRUT (Reuters) - Lebanese opposition leaders on Tuesday bluntly implicated Syria in the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik al-Hariri...

"This (Lebanese) regime is backed by the Syrians. This is the regime of terrorists and terrorism that was able yesterday to wipe out Rafik al-Hariri," Druze leader Walid Jumblatt said after presenting his condolences to Hariri's family in Beirut.

Exiled former general Michel Aoun, a Maronite Christian and long-time foe of Syria, said Damascus was indirectly, if not directly, responsible for the Hariri's killing."There are many Syrian and Lebanese intelligence services working in Beirut and they control everything in the country.

 

[Someone]

The bombing isn't 24 hours old and you've already identified the culprit...(think Madrid bombing)..and I'm not concerned with little things like evidence...hahahaha...

On the other hand I have no problem believing that someone in Syrian intelligence was given the nod from higher up for an operation unbeknownst to Assad. This would allow him and his henchmen plausable deniability. Remember Syria denies they do anything...supporting Palestinian Islamists, occupying Lebanon, letting Iraqi insurgents use their territory, hiding old pals of Saddam...

And old pals of Hitler too, none other than Alois 'The Jews deserved to die' Brunner.

Despite Walid Jumblatt's denunciation of Syria for this act, this bombing is so counter-productive that there would need to be more evidence to decide who is responsible. This bombing will make pressure for Syria to withdraw almost irresistible and Hariri's death will not cause Lebanon to collapse. The fake (this one appears to be) terrorist group has been used by Israel and many others in the region as a cover for assassinations, so the the character of the assassination cannot be used as evidence. Hariri was a business magnate so criminals refused protection money and their like might be possible candidates. Israel has killed with car bombs with fake terrorists claiming the attacks, but others have done so too. Denominating themselves as some obscure group is a common tactic for terror groups where the attack might reflect discredit on the organisation. And why would Israel kill him? Stirring trouble would help Syria primarily. If Lebanon fell back into chaos, Syria would have found a justification for remaining and increased attacks from Hezbollah could be blamed on the general chaos.

Hariri's Mustaqbal movement tended to almost use Walid Jumblatt to vent views they would avoid for the sake of prudence. His statements could be their private views until the evidence emerges to connect Syria to it. Evidence is awaited.

 

[Skeptic]

Despite Walid Jumblatt's denunciation of Syria for this act, this bombing is so counter-productive that there would need to be more evidence to decide who is responsible.

It might be, but then again, this would not be the first time governments did counter-productive things. Besides, who knows? If it IS Syria, perhaps they are counting on the "the dead are soon forgotten" strategy, preferring a few days of rage about Hariri dead to continual pressure of Hariri alive.

This of course does not prove Syria IS behind this; in fact I am a bit surpirsed that Z-N uses the "Arab street"'s anger at X as evidence for X's fault--if THAT was a reliable indicator, the Mossad would have been behind 9/11, and the jews in general behind, well, everything. All I am saying that judging that it is counterproductive for Syria to do so is only very weak, if any, evidence AGAINST Syria doing it

All we can say right now is that we cannot tell.

 

[zenith-nadir]

Despite Walid Jumblatt's denunciation of Syria for this act, this bombing is so counter-productive that there would need to be more evidence to decide who is responsible.

After all what would Lebanese MP Walid Jumblatt know....Syria has been doing counter productive crap for decades, (see: openly supporting Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hizbollah, occupying Lebanon, hiding Saddams henchmen, allowing Iraqi insurgents to use their turf)

The fake (this one appears to be) terrorist group has been used by Israel and many others in the region as a cover for assassinations, so the the character of the assassination cannot be used as evidence....Israel has killed with car bombs with fake terrorists claiming the attacks... And why would Israel kill him? Stirring trouble would help Syria primarily.

The old "Israel did it" theory, of course. Did you know Israel was responsible for 9-11 too?

Evidence is awaited.

Well if you look a few posts up you will see that another anti-Syrian Lebanese politician - Economy and Trade Minister Marwan Hamadeh - was almost blown to bits last october. So if I take that into account and combine that with Hariri's very vocal anti-Syrian stance, I have two anti-Syrian Lebanese politicians and two car bombs in less than four months. These kind of operations take planning, money and personel. Who would be the first suspect in stifling dissent of Syria's military and political grip on Lebanon? Oh...ya....I forgot... Israel would be....

 

[a_unique_person]

Wow, you can actually say that with a straight face.

.....

But never mind all that. Zenith-nadir has declared that Syria is the responsible party, so it must be so.

I sincerely hope you never get called for jury duty.

Yep, his OP had fingered Syria purely from a guess, you're reference to the group claiming to be behind it means you are jumping to conclusions.

He is free to make a guess, to tell someone off for countering that with evidence is amazing.

 

[a_unique_person]

Oh, good, just as long as you're able to look at this rationally.

I find cussing at him works wonderfully.

 

[Someone]

After all what would Lebanese MP Walid Jumblatt know....Syria has been doing counter productive crap for decades, (see: openly supporting Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hizbollah, occupying Lebanon, hiding Saddams henchmen, allowing Iraqi insurgents to use their turf)

The old "Israel did it" theory, of course. Did you know Israel was responsible for 9-11 too?

Well if you look a few posts up you will see that another anti-Syrian Lebanese politician - Economy and Trade Minister Marwan Hamadeh - was almost blown to bits last october. So if I take that into account and combine that with Hariri's very vocal anti-Syrian stance, I have two anti-Syrian Lebanese politicians and two car bombs in less than four months. These kind of operations take planning, money and personel. Who would be the first suspect in stifling dissent of Syria's military and political grip on Lebanon? Oh...ya....I forgot... Israel would be....

Em, do you just latch on to some some phrase to start you off on some rant? I simply mused on who might be responsible. I mentioned Israel and discounted them, though car-bombing with fake terror claims is a tactic it has used. But I surmised that this tactic is so common, it would be along the lines of 'Israel used car-bombs, ergo Israel is responsible.'

I am having some problem working out this post of yours', I mean how you took it the way you did.

And why would Israel kill him? Stirring trouble would help Syria primarily.

Surely that fairly straightforwardly states Israel is a very unlikely culprit, as the act would benefit Syria, if sectarian violence would follow. I know I might have forgotten that posts do not have the benefit of a person's tone of voice to convey emotions like incredulity or sarcasm. But it is worrying that you seem almost to have deliberately misunderstood my post, so as deliver an almost stereotyped denunciation of what you decided I think.

And as to hiding insurgents, probably, but the US government has a proven record of dishonesty regarding Iraq. Information linking Syria could as easily have come from someone tortured in Guantanamo (though you probably deny that torture has happened there) or elsewhere. Given that Syria has played a helpful role in so called rendition where suspects are sent to some Moslem ally of the US like Uzbekistan or Egypt for the most depraved torture imaginable, I wonder if the US government will push this too much, if no hard evidence emerges.