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HAMAS wins big.

Ed said:
There will always be enough money to allow the head guys to lead the sort of life that they want. In reading these posts, I could only think of Somalia, a pariah state run by warlords.

We have now heard the "tut tutting" by the west. Next will come the backpedaling.
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And the pressure on israel to show "goodwill" and "moderation" and "give hope" to those devoted to the killing of every jew in "occupied Palestine".

I give it two weeks.
 
Skeptic said:
And the pressure on israel to show "goodwill" and "moderation" and "give hope" to those devoted to the killing of every jew in "occupied Palestine".

I give it two weeks.
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We will see if it is in the range of the possible for the Palestinians to be treated as sentient human beings or if they will continue to be treated as naughty pets.
 
"If Satan should ever replace God he would find it necessary to assume the attributes of Divinity."---Voltaire

Maybe there is room for hope in this? It's a lot easier to criticize from the outside; Hamas may have to clean up their act, at least a little, in order to function. They certainly couldn't be any more corrupt than Arafat's regime.
 
The couple voted for Third Way, a secular, pro-reform party. Jamal said the days when Fatah called the shots are over.
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It would seem that the Palestinians did in fact have a third voting option that they eschewed, so how can it be said that they were just voting against Fatah? In light of this, it seems that much more clear that they have made their true desires and intentions known.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/FE817201-AE21-4623-8103-D9AEC81E19B7.htm
 
Psi Baba said:
It would seem that the Palestinians did in fact have a third voting option that they eschewed, so how can it be said that they were just voting against Fatah? In light of this, it seems that much more clear that they have made their true desires and intentions known.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/FE817201-AE21-4623-8103-D9AEC81E19B7.htm
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Not really. Technicaly there were 6 people at the last US election who could have got enough electorial collage votes in order to win. For some reason a lot of people voted bush to stop kerry and kerry to try and stop bush.
 
Skeptic said:
If Israel didn't exist neither would hammas.

And if Elizabet didn't exist, Johnny couldn't have raped and murdered her. Therefore, the root cause of her rape and murder is her being born.
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Johnny would still exist though.
 
Only 5 minutes untill the 700 club and we get to hear Pat Robertsons take on the matter. I cant wait.
 
geni said:
Not really. Technicaly there were 6 people at the last US election who could have got enough electorial collage votes in order to win. For some reason a lot of people voted bush to stop kerry and kerry to try and stop bush.
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Oh well OK then, I had thought that it was a bad thing (that a majority of Palestinians wanted genocidal policies implimented).

But actually, it's just that out of the following:
1) Hand in the till,
2) Secular third way,
3) Genocide (of the Jews).
A significant number see (3) as the lesser of the evils, plus of course enough who see it as legitimate and praiseworthy to make it a majority.

Well that just makes things peachy.
 
I hate to break it to you but Hamas isn't the only muslim group dedicated to Israel's destruction. They all are. All muslims everywhere. They might make peace for awhile until such time as they can attack with some success of winning and then it will begin again. The only way this will end is if the Israelis get a brain in their head and move to island someplace and quit defending a desert. Any other alternative is only going to result in their ultimate destruction. It's not a matter of IF, it's a matter of when.

The girl who gets raped and murdered it isn't her fault for being born but it is her fault for stubbornly and pointless living in a insane asylum full of murderer rapists. When there are other places to go. Nobody is going to feel too sorry for her either.

You can't have a political solution to a problem for which there is no point of compromise. The Muslims cannot tolerate Israel's presence and they refuse to leave. Thus you are at an impasse. Politics is what you do until you can fight again under those circumstances.
 
zenith-nadir said:
This is terrible news and I fear for the future.
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I don't know, perhaps not. What was your fear in the past, with an utterly ineffectual PA and an unrestrained Hamas?

Then, the apologists could always point to what the PA might do tomorrow, and no one knew for sure if Hamas was the radical minority holding everyone else hostage.

Now the Palestinian people have spoken in an apparently valid election, and without being able to blame Israel for the outcome (meaning having prevented a true election). Let us see how nicely the EU and others deal with Hamas.

Isn't there a certain clarity now that didn't exist before?
 
geni said:
Not really. Technicaly there were 6 people at the last US election who could have got enough electorial collage votes in order to win. For some reason a lot of people voted bush to stop kerry and kerry to try and stop bush.
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I don't think the two elections can you really be compared. The political and social climates are worlds away. Besides, we Americans must constantly hear how "Americans have chosen a war-mongering religous conservative as their leader. Well America has spoken (albeit by a slim margin); that must be what they want." And now all Americans are paying the price for that. Fine. All Palestinians will now have to accept the consequences of any backlash that results from Hamas's campaign of terror. Israel now has no reason whatsoever to seek peace with the PA (since Hamas has clearly stated that will never happen). You can only prod a sleeping bear with a sharp stick so many times before he fully wakes up and rips you to shreds.
 
Skeptic said:
I'm sure there is a list as long as my arm as how this shows absolutely nothing about Palestinian support of genocidal terror, and if it does, it's really all israel's fault they support genocidal terror in the first place.
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Nah, I think this election shows most Palestinians support genocidal terror. And yep, it is Israel's fault.

Did Bush ever consider what "spreading democracy in the Middle East" would lead to? Idiot. You give Iraqis democracy, and they want a Shi'ite, Islamic republic with strong ties to Iran. You give Palestinians democracy, and they want Hamas and death to Israel. Should this be surprising anyone?

How about starting an "Enlightenment" period in the Middle East first.
 
Vagabond said:
I hate to break it to you but Hamas isn't the only muslim group dedicated to Israel's destruction. They all are. All muslims everywhere. They might make peace for awhile until such time as they can attack with some success of winning and then it will begin again.
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As insulting as that may sound, the fact is, that pretty much sums up the example the Muslim ummah is to follow. Spread Islam, and fight those who refuse to pay the tax if they do not convert. That's the straightforward, Wahhabists way to look at things, and most Muslims echo it, though not necessarily loudly.

Vagabond said:
The only way this will end is if the Israelis get a brain in their head and move to island someplace and quit defending a desert. Any other alternative is only going to result in their ultimate destruction. It's not a matter of IF, it's a matter of when.
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It's not just desert. It's been fixed up rather nicely in places. To move all the infrastructure, the military, the nuclear facilities, all of it would be a major pain in the butt. Israel realizes Hamas can't do anything an F-16 can't take care of. Iran on the other hand ...
 
Mark said:
"If Satan should ever replace God he would find it necessary to assume the attributes of Divinity."---Voltaire

Maybe there is room for hope in this? It's a lot easier to criticize from the outside; Hamas may have to clean up their act, at least a little, in order to function. They certainly couldn't be any more corrupt than Arafat's regime.
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The issue isn't their corruption. It's their genocidal fanaticism. This is like electing the Nazi party to power.
 
Vagabond said:
The girl who gets raped and murdered it isn't her fault for being born but it is her fault for stubbornly and pointless living in a insane asylum full of murderer rapists. When there are other places to go. Nobody is going to feel too sorry for her either.
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Well, YOU sure won't.

But I like your view of humanity: the Muslims are unmitigated insane barbarians, while the jews are to blame for their own genocide.

Nice.
 
Mark said:
Maybe there is room for hope in this? ... Hamas may have to clean up their act, at least a little, in order to function.
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Well, I can think at least of one other relatively recent regime which was elected on the "death to the jews" platform.

All the smart money said that their firebrand leader, one Adolf H., will surely get moderate and reasonable now that he had to deal with the pragmatic realities of power. Besides, the real reason that leader was voted in was, undoubtebly, mere frustration with the previous, corrupt and ineffectual, regime in the first place.

With a leader who will now have to become moderate about the "kill the jews" nonsense and a population that really voted for him for completely different reasons, said all the experts, what's the worse that could happen?

Er, no, Mark. Amazingly enough, I think the Palestinians voted overwhelmingly for a party whose official goal is to kill all the jews because they overwhelmingly want to kill all the jews.

If Hitler had taught us anything, it's this: when someone tells you his goal is to kill all the jews, believe them.
 
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