Hamas Wants Civilian Casualties

[Tin Foil Timothy]

This inside/outside stuff appears to be semantics. The Hamas members were at the perimeter of the school, and Israel hit the perimeter of the school. Outside or inside depends on your own interpretation, but I don't think any of this seriously changes the scenario.

You're right. It doesn't. It was a disgusting act by Israel, a war crime no less, which ever way you look at it.

Israel knows Hamas fight close to civilians. But it fires anyway. Israel could use more precision and targeted methods to kill Hamas fighters if it really wanted to. Instead of sitting cowardly in fortified tanks firing shells.

 

[IDB87]

So let's get this straight? A couple of hamas fighters fire from a building, and even though the building contains 1,000 civilians it's OK to fire artillery at the building?

Hamas uses a civilian building as a military instillation - what are our options?

1) Flush it with artillery, take the civilian losses and bad press, move on.

2) Send in an infantry company, assault the building, flush Hamas out with grenades and small arms.

3) Your turn

 

[IDB87]

You're right. It doesn't. It was a disgusting act by Israel, a war crime no less, which ever way you look at it.

You were saying something about legality? Which article of the Geneva Convention, International Law, or any Law of War, did Israel violate?

Israel could use more precision and targeted methods to kill Hamas fighters if it really wanted to.

Such as?

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

You were saying something about legality? Which article of the Geneva Convention, International Law, or any Law of War, did Israel violate?

A crime against humanity.

And I see you've once again proved your precedence for laws on paper to the sanctity of innocent human life. Vile!!!

I take it you would also recognize laws made by people like Hitler then? I notice you avoid my analogy.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Hamas uses a civilian building as a military instillation - what are our options?

1) Flush it with artillery, take the civilian losses and bad press, move on.

2) Send in an infantry company, assault the building, flush Hamas out with grenades and small arms.

3) Your turn

2) Send in an infantry company, assault the building, flush Hamas out with small arms. Grenades would be a bit stupid if the place was full of civilians.


I can see you would choose option 1] - Israel chose option 1] as it doesn't care about Palestinian civilians. Do you care about Palestinian civilians? You haven't shown much humanity for them so far. Legal losses you implied.

 

[gumboot]

You're right. It doesn't. It was a disgusting act by Israel, a war crime no less, which ever way you look at it.

Israel knows Hamas fight close to civilians. But it fires anyway. Israel could use more precision and targeted methods to kill Hamas fighters if it really wanted to. Instead of sitting cowardly in fortified tanks firing shells.

With every post you make, you simply dig yourself deeper and deeper into a hole of ignorance and stupidity. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I can help you climb out any time you want.

 

[gumboot]

2) Send in an infantry company, assault the building, flush Hamas out with small arms. Grenades would be a bit stupid if the place was full of civilians.

Not only would this garner far greater international outrage than a few shells (with yourself no doubt at the front of the queue of useful idiots) but it would result in substantially greater civilian death toll.

You seriously do not have the faintest idea what you're talking about, do you?

 

[fullflavormenthol]

Israel could use more precision and targeted methods to kill Hamas fighters if it really wanted to. Instead of sitting cowardly in fortified tanks firing shells.

As opposed to what? Have snipers posted to attempt to kill the one dude in the middle of a bunch of civilians? Despite the fact that this sniper would get killed? I mean you are saying that 1.) Hamas uses civilians as human shields, but 2.) Israel should only target the Hamas personel? When in fact Hamas is engaging in war crimes by using human sheilds, and launching attacks from civilian areas knowing that the resulting counter attack will cause the deaths of civilians. Would you have Israel merely sit back and allow their own people to be murdered waiting for the magical technology that would allow them to kill the one Hamas fighter in the group of civilians?

 

[IDB87]

A crime against humanity.

Could you explain to me why the Geneva Convention exists?

And I see you've once again proved your precedence for laws on paper to the sanctity of innocent human life. Vile!!!

Throw out the Geneva Convetion, an innocent person may be killed in a war.

I take it you would also recognize laws made by people like Hitler then? I notice you avoid my analogy.

 

[Texas]

Not only would this garner far greater international outrage than a few shells (with yourself no doubt at the front of the queue of useful idiots) but it would result in substantially greater civilian death toll.

You seriously do not have the faintest idea what you're talking about, do you?

Hey it worked on "24"

 

[IDB87]

You seriously do not have the faintest idea what you're talking about, do you?

Was it Parky or TFT who wanted to see higher IDF casulaties? If TFT, his support for the idiocy of assaulting a Hamas stronghold without armor or air support makes sense in a bizzare, face palming, need to drink more heavily, kind of way.

 

[gtc]

Was it Parky or TFT who wanted to see higher IDF casulaties? If TFT, his support for the idiocy of assaulting a Hamas stronghold without armor or air support makes sense in a bizzare, face palming, need to drink more heavily, kind of way.

That's just the sort of thing Hitler would write if he were alive today and writing on a discussion forum*!



*Actually he would probably write something like 'Mein Gott, why am I alive in the year 2009 and writing on a discussion forum, and in English too'.

 

[Thunder]

If I had my way, when this is all over, Hamas will be tried for war crimes due to their attacks on Israeli civilians and the use of Palestinian civilians and human sheilds.

And, the IDF will be accused of crimes against humanity, for their blockade of Gaza, and mass killing of innocent civilians in Gaza.

Both sides have done bad things..both sides should face justice.

 

[Pardalis]

What a load of BS.

You always have that line ready, but never any extended explanation ever follows.

 

[WildCat]

5. Wildcat, your first response to me ended in a very long straw man but it began with an outrageous smear of me and I demand an apology from you. Quit using cowardly smears immediately. It is not conducive to a civil discussion.

I shouldn't have accused you of truther tactics and I'm sorry for that. However, a reading of your own link says taht:

Tal said two known Hamas gunmen were killed in the Israeli strike just outside the school, in addition to members of a mortar squad.

...a large number of the casualties were women and children who had gathered at the school because they considered it a haven from the fighting. At the time of the attack, people were standing outside the gate of the school, where hundreds of families had sought shelter.

Every report I have seen was quite clear that the Israeli mortars and Palestinian casualties were just outside the school. You were nitpicking over an IDF statement where the spokesman said they took fire from inside the school, and another IDF figure who didn't know exactly which wall the casualties occurred at. But remember, the IDF does not communicate in English and some things will get lost in the translation when making a hasty press release. You then said they were backpedaling, when it was really just an issue of semantics.

As for the UN having lost all credibility in this incident I stand by that 100%. As I see it, there are just a few possibilities to explain their behavior.

1.They are thoroughly incapable of protecting their assets from Islamic insurgents and actually expect Israel to grant safe haven to any militants that use them as a fire base.

2. Their operations in Gaza are completely infiltrated by Hamas and other allied groups who are giving the UN false information which the UN naively accepts without question.

3. The UN is actually protecting Hamas and its allies for reasons only they can know.

Neither scenario bodes well for the UN as a viable and neutral arbiter of conflicts in this region.

If there's more possibilities (besides all/some of the above) that explains their behavior I'm having a hard time figuring it out. Feel free to offer any up.

I realize my tone is a bit harsh but I am very angry at the way the UN is conducting themselves in this conflict.

 

[Puppycow]

What a load of BS.


Why are people so gullible/blind to the propaganda of the IDF yet can easily recocognise the propaganda of Hamas?

There's no evidence that armed Hamas fighters were in the school.

The Jerusalem Post article even uses footage from a completely different incident to bolster this news article. but in fairness does say,

And what vile propaganda ...

"Defense officials told The Associated Press that booby-trapped bombs in the school had triggered secondary explosions that killed additional Palestinians there. "


Read this ...


http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...ate-the-west-so-much-we-will-ask-1230046.html

THE PATHOLOGY OF ROBERT FISK

I'm sure that Fisk thinks Hamas' "brutality is entirely the product of others."

 

[Puppycow]

Robert Fisk, the guy who said this?:


Quite the journalist...

Oh my. Good catch.

 

[a_unique_person]

Not only would this garner far greater international outrage than a few shells (with yourself no doubt at the front of the queue of useful idiots) but it would result in substantially greater civilian death toll.

I don't know how much more outrage there could be.

The principle that civilians deaths and casualties don't matter when there is a greater goal in mind seems to be a dangerous one, and no different to the to the question raised in the OP.

As for the OP, why would Israel subsidise poor people to live in those towns in missile rage of the Gaza strip? Encouraging people to live in Sderot doesn't seem to make sense.

 

[gtc]

As for the OP, why would Israel subsidise poor people to live in those towns in missile rage of the Gaza strip? Encouraging people to live in Sderot doesn't seem to make sense.

Do they?

Israel is very small; I'm not sure how much of it isn't within rocket range from one area or another.

 

[Meadmaker]

Let's be absolutely 100% clear on the facts of the matter here, people.

Firstly, independent journalists are reporting that militants were either inside or immediately adjacent to the UN site. This is neither IDF nor Hamas propaganda.

There's something that strikes me as odd about the above post.

Earlier, it was said by several people that the Israeli government does not allow independent journalists into the war zone. Is that correct?

If that's the case, then whatever independent journalists are reporting is, in fact, either IDF or Hamas propoganda, because there is no way to verify the information independently.