H1N1, vaccine my daughter yes or no?

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

This has nothing to do with vaccination refusal nor anything like that, I wanted desperately to get the vaccine for my family. But what makes me wonder now is that, AFAIK, H1N1 is less dangerous than the regular flu, and so there is no real reason to run to get the vaccine anymore.

Of course I want informed opinions. What do you think? what is your experience with H1N1?

 

[Skeptic Guy]

Depends on how young your daughter is, as well as her overall health. H1N1 affects younger children more than adults. The vaccine is as safe as the seasonal flu vaccine, so I don't see a problem having her take it. I know that both of my kids have had the vaccine.

 

[Uncayimmy]

On what basis did you conclude that it's less dangerous than regular flu?

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/qa.htm
How does 2009 H1N1 flu compare to seasonal flu in terms of its severity and infection rates?

With seasonal flu, we know that seasons vary in terms of timing, duration and severity. Seasonal influenza can cause mild to severe illness, and at times can lead to death. Each year, in the United States, on average 36,000 people die from flu-related complications and more than 200,000 people are hospitalized from flu-related causes. Of those hospitalized, 20,000 are children younger than 5 years old. Over 90% of deaths and about 60 percent of hospitalization occur in people older than 65.

When the 2009 H1N1 outbreak was first detected in mid-April 2009, CDC began working with states to collect, compile and analyze information regarding the 2009 H1N1 flu outbreak, including the numbers of confirmed and probable cases and the ages of these people. The information analyzed by CDC supports the conclusion that 2009 H1N1 flu has caused greater disease burden in people younger than 25 years of age than older people. At this time, there are relatively fewer cases and deaths reported in people 65 years and older, which is unusual when compared with seasonal flu. However, pregnancy and other previously recognized high risk medical conditions from seasonal influenza appear to be associated with increased risk of complications from this 2009 H1N1. These underlying conditions include asthma, diabetes, suppressed immune systems, heart disease, kidney disease, neurocognitive and neuromuscular disorders and pregnancy.

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

Depends on how young your daughter is, as well as her overall health. H1N1 affects younger children more than adults. The vaccine is as safe as the seasonal flu vaccine, so I don't see a problem having her take it. I know that both of my kids have had the vaccine.

6 years old, and it is true, the vaccine is safe. What I wondered is if it would be better to get sick or get the vaccine... assuming, of course, that the H1N1 is less dangerous than the seasonal flu.

On what basis did you conclude that it's less dangerous than regular flu?

Very good question, thanks, just reports by the people I know and the lack of news on general media, nothing else, and yes, I can't draw a conclusion from that. I have read somewhere that there are A LOT more cases than reported, and that most of them are so mild that people don't associate their symptoms with h1n1. This makes sense for me, as the current state of Pandemic shows that a whole lot of people should be sick...

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Quite a lot of people infected with swine flu will be asymptomatic, or only have mild cold-like symptoms, but I don't know if this differs from the rates with seasonal flu.

http://emssolutionsinc.wordpress.com/2009/07/31/peru-33-percent-of-h1n1-cases-are-asymptomatic/

 

[Cainkane1]

This has nothing to do with vaccination refusal nor anything like that, I wanted desperately to get the vaccine for my family. But what makes me wonder now is that, AFAIK, H1N1 is less dangerous than the regular flu, and so there is no real reason to run to get the vaccine anymore.

Of course I want informed opinions. What do you think? what is your experience with H1N1?

Go ahead and get her vaccinated. She might cough up a little sputum but overall its better than the flu.

 

[Uncayimmy]

6 years old, and it is true, the vaccine is safe. What I wondered is if it would be better to get sick or get the vaccine... assuming, of course, that the H1N1 is less dangerous than the seasonal flu.

Whatever her reaction to the vaccine is (extremely rare but serious adverse reactions excluded) it will probably more severe if the virus has a chance to replicate. In other words if she feels bad from the immune reaction to a harmless version of the virus, imagine how much more work her body has to do to fight off the real virus as it damages her body.

She'll also be infectious, so she can't go to school. Somebody else in the house might get sick as well, which means more time off from work. Remember, she'll be infectious before she shows any symptoms, so she may infect other people. That's not very nice.

On top of that you can get her the vaccine while she's healthy and feeling fine. The virus can strike at any time, such as when she hasn't been sleeping well for a few weeks while fighting off a couple of ordinary colds. Or maybe she gets strep throat and an ear infection the day before you bring home H1N1 from work. How do you think her body will react then?

Very good question, thanks, just reports by the people I know and the lack of news on general media, nothing else, and yes, I can't draw a conclusion from that. I have read somewhere that there are A LOT more cases than reported, and that most of them are so mild that people don't associate their symptoms with h1n1. This makes sense for me, as the current state of Pandemic shows that a whole lot of people should be sick...

Did she get a regular flu shot? The H1N1 would have been rolled into the existing flu vaccine had it been discovered sooner. As I pointed out the major difference in H1N1 is that is affecting younger people more severely.

Personally, I was more worried about getting into a car wreck taking my kids to get their shots than I was about the rare but serious adverse reactions.

 

[phunk]

You should also consider that vaccination is not just about protecting yourself (or your daughter), it's about protecting everyone else as well. It's true that most people who get H1N1 will survive. But they have a chance to spread it to others, who can spread it to others, etc. Some of those other people down the line will die.

Any one person might think they can only protect themselves with a vaccine, but when enough people are vaccinated, it becomes unlikely that someone with the disease has anyone around them to spread it to (herd immunity). Know anyone who's had polio or smallpox lately?

 

[Fnord]

Which would you rather do:

1. Vaccinate your daughter against H1N1 and risk a 0.0000625% (1 out of ~16,000)chance of her dying from the vaccine?

2. Do not vaccinate your daughter against H1N1 and risk a 0.0000000018% (1 out of ~556,000,000) chance of her dying from the H1N1 virus if she should contract it?

3. Send your daughter outdoors to play in the rain and risk a 0.0000320% chance (1 out of ~31,000) of her being struck by lightning?

IMHO, fear of the 'Swine Flu' has been more contagious than the virus itself.

(Link to source for statistics -- Please correct, if needed.)

 

[Uncayimmy]

Which would you rather do:

1. Vaccinate your daughter against H1N1 and risk a 0.0000625% (1 out of ~16,000)chance of her dying from the vaccine?

2. Do not vaccinate your daughter against H1N1 and risk a 0.0000000018% (1 out of ~556,000,000) chance of her dying from the H1N1 virus if she should contract it?

3. Send your daughter outdoors to play in the rain and risk a 0.0000320% chance (1 out of ~31,000) of her being struck by lightning?

IMHO, fear of the 'Swine Flu' has been more contagious than the virus itself.

(Link to source for statistics -- Please correct, if needed.)

Why don't you do some basic research? That article was dated May 2, 2009, just a few days after the first confirmed case of swine flu in Canada. The author claims just six cases of H1N1 in Canada at that time. In August they simply stopped counting and started only counting deaths. According to recent data there have been 410 deaths from H1N1 so far.

I wonder how many of those people died because of the idiot who wrote that article?

 

[GreenLines]

2. Do not vaccinate your daughter against H1N1 and risk a 0.0000000018% (1 out of ~556,000,000) chance of her dying from the H1N1 virus if she should contract it?

Seems statistically flawed. By that number less then twenty people have died from complications from H1N1. ~7,000,000,000 people worldwide, divided by 556,000,000 = ~12.5.

ETA: Thanks UncaYimmy for noticing the date on the article.

 

[Skeptic Guy]

6 years old, and it is true, the vaccine is safe. What I wondered is if it would be better to get sick or get the vaccine... assuming, of course, that the H1N1 is less dangerous than the seasonal flu.



Very good question, thanks, just reports by the people I know and the lack of news on general media, nothing else, and yes, I can't draw a conclusion from that. I have read somewhere that there are A LOT more cases than reported, and that most of them are so mild that people don't associate their symptoms with h1n1. This makes sense for me, as the current state of Pandemic shows that a whole lot of people should be sick...

My opinion? It's never better for my daughter to get sick from the flu, H1N1 or otherwise, than to be immunized against it. My daughter didn't miss a day after her vaccine and I wouldn't expect yours to.

 

[Rolfe]

At the other end of the age spectrum, my 93-year-old mother had the vaccine about 3 weeks ago. The only thing she noted was a rather sore arm where she had the injection, and she didn't even mention that until I happened to bang against the sore spot as I brushed past the chair she was sitting on.

Rolfe.

 

[Fnord]

Why don't you do some basic research? That article was dated May 2, 2009, just a few days after the first confirmed case of swine flu in Canada. The author claims just six cases of H1N1 in Canada at that time. In August they simply stopped counting and started only counting deaths. According to recent data there have been 410 deaths from H1N1 so far.

I wonder how many of those people died because of the idiot who wrote that article?

That WAS my basic research. Unfortunately, I posted in a rush and thought I might have misplaced a few decimal points. Thus the "Please correct, if needed" statement.

I wonder how many died because they did not read the article.

According to Wikipedia, there were 13,277 deaths from H1N1 out of a world population of ~7 billion people. ~14x10^3 / ~7x10^9 = ~0.000002, or ~0.0002% of the world's population.

Yeah, get your daughter the shot. She has a greater chance of dying from H1N1 than from getting struck by lightning and dying.

 

[Estellea]

Which would you rather do:

1. Vaccinate your daughter against H1N1 and risk a 0.0000625% (1 out of ~16,000)chance of her dying from the vaccine?

Where did this stat come from?

Este

 

[Uncayimmy]

That WAS my basic research. Unfortunately, I posted in a rush and thought I might have misplaced a few decimal points. Thus the "Please correct, if needed" statement.

I wonder how many died because they did not read the article.

I would say none.

Where are you getting a death rate of 1 in 16,000 for the vaccine? My link showed a 37% vaccine rate in Canada. That would mean 770 deaths from the vaccine. This UPI article states that there has been one death as of November 18, 2009 (a severe allergic reaction in an elderly person).

Maybe your problem is that the decimal given was a percentage, so you have to divide by 100. That puts the death rate at about 1 in 1,600,000 for the vaccine, not 16,000. If we figure that they might have missed a couple of deaths out of the 12,000,000 people vaccinated or that a few more have happened since then, that would about right (7 deaths).

The author's premise wasn't fatally flawed, but he didn't really think it through. Influenza is infectious. I think the rate right now is something like any given person will infect 1.75 other people not immune to it. Granted, this must be over some time period, so I'm not exactly sure how to calculate the growth rate. The point is that it will spread, so you can't just look at one number (% people infected so far) and pretend that number is the final number.

There's also the issue of confirmed cases. For various reasons they don't go around sampling the population, so they can't say for sure there have been N confirmed cases. The cases they confirm are most likely from very sick people. Lots of people don't get all that sick and never see a doctor, but they are most certainly spreading the disease.

So basically, just look at the 1 in 1,600,000 number for deaths from the vaccine (that might be a high estimate, but let's use it). If every single person in North America got the vaccine, we're talking about 210 deaths. Meanwhile, there have been 3,500 deaths (17X as many) from the flu itself. Remember, those 3,500 deaths are for the entire population, which includes people who have been vaccinated, have a prior immunity, or have yet to be exposed to the virus. If nobody got vaccinated and everybody got exposed, what do you think that number might be?

 

[Eos of the Eons]

What are the chances of getting the flu now though, where you live?

The flu will frac with your DNA and make more of itself by fraccing with it, and possibly even mutate if you get infected.

The flu shot is a dead shot and won't frac with your DNA, and won't give the virus a chance to mutate if you do encounter it anymore. The weakened flu mist vaccine also is too weak to frac with your DNA and mutate while doing it.


Chances of GBS (including paralysis) from flu-like illnesses= 1/100 0000. Chances of GBS from flu shot= 1/million.

Chances of death from the shot... I haven't heard of the flu shot killing anyone, but there are some speculations out there of chances.

Ah, I see there may have been a death via allergic reaction (why wasn't that caught and dealt with so it didn't end up in a death?). Allergic reaction from the flu (I've never heard of any). Allergic reaction to the vaccine 1/million.


Chances of dying from the flu are far higher.

Chances of getting pneumonia or some other secondary illness from the shot is zero, while possible if you get the flu.
http://www.invernessmedical.com/news/view_only.asp?ID=69

If you get the flu you might have to mess with antivirals, and that can cause the virus to mutate into a resistant strain.

So, weigh all that against the chances of getting the flu in your area.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

This has nothing to do with vaccination refusal nor anything like that, I wanted desperately to get the vaccine for my family. But what makes me wonder now is that, AFAIK, H1N1 is less dangerous than the regular flu, and so there is no real reason to run to get the vaccine anymore.

Of course I want informed opinions. What do you think? what is your experience with H1N1?

There is a reason: this flu stain is more dangerous for kids including healthy kids.

And while there are low odds per case of flu that something bad will happen to anyone, there are magnitudes lower odds of anything bad happening from the vaccine.

In other words, the flu vaccine benefit is much greater than the flu vaccine risk, be it seasonal or 2009 H1N1 pandemic flu vaccine.

Seasonal flu has yet to arrive in the northern hemisphere and H1N1 is not gone. I'd get your kids and yourself both vaccines.

But then I am biased. This is the field of health care I have worked in for the last 18 years, (NP, private practice, occupational infectious disease hazards).

 

[truethat]

Waits for the OPer to be shredded by the forum for being stupid and anti vaxxer. Simply because she asked a legitimate question.

In my opinion if you regularly give your child vaccines then this one is probably about the same. You should do it. Better safe than sorry.

Also if your child catches the flu she may give it to someone who is high risk but can't get the vaccine. Example, someone in the grocery store who is undergoing chemo? So out of public service, especially as your child is in elementary school (I'm assuming)

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

THANK YOU ALL FOR THE KIND ANSWERS.

My daughter will certainly have her shot, and I wish her mom and I could take it too, but we are not considered to be on "high risk groups".