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Guns.

CFLarsen said:
Bikes are not built to kill.
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I've never killed ANYTHING with any of my firearms, but I once ran over a frog (by accident) on my bicycle. Knives are not meant to kill, but I'll bet they do their fair share, the same with automobiles.
 
Come on, we can't ban them now... I just got my permit to carry a concealed weapon.
 
Bikewer said:
I believe that a right to self-defense is intrinsic, and people should be able to protect themselves or their property from criminals. Like it or not, in the US we have a society with a crime level sufficiently high that anyone might concievably become a "victim" at any time.

. . . .snip . . .

Finally, many states have passed laws requiring additional, mandatory sentences for crimes involving a weapon. The problem is with "armed criminal action" statutes is that they become a bargaining chip. "Plead guilty to the robbery and we'll drop the ACA charge."
The NRA does reccomend enforcement of existing laws....
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Excellent point from a source who should know. Thanks, Bikewer - I wouldn't personally rely on firearms as a first choice for self-defense, but there are many old and infirm or physically-challenged people who rely on a firearm to protect them against younger, more virile aggressors. I think they deserve the right to protect themselves.

I also think that mandatory sentences for crimes involving firearms should NOT be allowed to be used as a bargaining chip. I am, however, up in the air about the NRA. They seem to me a mostly Conservative group and as I said previously, I know several liberal gun owners, but we're all hesitant to endorse ALL NRA proposals.
 
Mephisto said:
I've never killed ANYTHING with any of my firearms, but I once ran over a frog (by accident) on my bicycle. Knives are not meant to kill, but I'll bet they do their fair share, the same with automobiles.
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I'm way ahead of you.

From 1998-2002, between 63-67% of all murders were committed with firearms. Knives or cutting instruments only accounted for 13%.
Source: FBI

About half of all American homes have at least one gun. But knives are found in every kitchen.

Guns are far more dangerous than knives. Deal with it.
 
I really hope to see something new in this thread.

Otherwise, it is not merely a waste of time, but also a testament that gun proponents refuse to face reality.
 
BPSCG said:
Interesting. The gun nuts are the majority in the US? You should take that up with Cain, who wrote:

You guys need to get on the same page.
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There's no real inconsistency. The majority of the public favors gun control in some form. The problem, especially when it comes to winning elections, is that many pro-gun people are single issue voters. The same goes for the anti-choice segment of the electorate.
 
Curnir said:
You know how to use a gun, you can store your guns safely, and unless the military has been very lax you are quite skilled in weapon maintenance. And you are a law-abiding citizen.

I see no reason what-so-ever why you should not be allowed to own a/many gun/guns.
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Oh, and welcome to the forums. :)
 
BPSCG said:
I don't believe in benevolent deities. I do believe in the Constitution, though.

Can you explain to me why, even though the word "abortion" appears nowhere in the Constitution, the Constitution guarantees a woman's right to have an abortion, while the Second Amendment, which explicitly says people have the right to keep and bear arms, doesn't mean she can actually keep and bear arms?
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Read the Second Amendment in its entirety. Look at how the Constitution defines a militia (Article I).

As for abortion, some of us (Scalia not included) understand the Constitution is an evolving document, intended, as Jefferson said, "for the living, not the dead." The Holy Founders could not have foreseen improvements in medicine anymore than they could have predicted technological changes.

If you want to get explicit about what the Constitution says, then also take a gander at the 7th Amendment.
 
LW said:
Bullets don't kill people.

Bullets that are launched from a barrel of a gun that hit a vital spot of a human with large enough velocity kills people.
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Bullets that are launched from a barrel of a gun that hit a vital spot of a human with large enough velocity don't kill people.

The cessation of the metobolism resulting from a hole in a vital spot of a human body created by a bullet launched from a barrel of a gun with suffcient velocity kills people.

How long can this thread continue?

Aaron
 
Cain said:
The same goes for the anti-choice segment of the electorate.
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Interesting that you pick on the "anti-choice" people as being "one-issue voters." You wouldn't characterize the "anti-life" people the same way?

Anyway, if you're saying that the "pro-gun" minority beats the anti-gun majority every election, all that tells me is that the pro-gun minority cares more about keeping their guns than the anti-gun majority does about taking them away.
 
Cain said:
Read the Second Amendment in its entirety. Look at how the Constitution defines a militia (Article I).
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The Constitution doesn't define a militia.
As for abortion, some of us (Scalia not included) understand the Constitution is an evolving document, intended, as Jefferson said, "for the living, not the dead." The Holy Founders could not have foreseen improvements in medicine anymore than they could have predicted technological changes.
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In other words, the Constitution means whatever we decide we want it to mean this week.
If you want to get explicit about what the Constitution says, then also take a gander at the 7th Amendment.
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I don't understand your point. The 7th amendment deals with the right to trial by jury.

Since abortion is not mentioned in the Constitution, but is still allegedly a right that it guarantees, would the right to keep and bear arms still exist, under the same reasoning as the right to an abortion, if the second amendment were repealed? In other words, if the second amendment were repealed, could a gun owner claim, "I still have a Constitutionally-protected right to own a gun, for the same reason that a woman has a Constitutionally-protected right to an abortion"?
 
HeavyAaron said:
Bullets that are launched from a barrel of a gun that hit a vital spot of a human with large enough velocity don't kill people.

The cessation of the metobolism resulting from a hole in a vital spot of a human body created by a bullet launched from a barrel of a gun with suffcient velocity kills people.
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Maybe, but that makes a lousy slogan on a protest banner.

And an even worse chant at a rally.
 
What do we want?

A reduction in cessation of metabolism induced by massive transfer of kinetic energy and fluid loss from small projectiles!

When do we want it?

Now!
 
manny said:
What do we want?

A reduction in cessation of metabolism induced by massive transfer of kinetic energy and fluid loss from small projectiles!

When do we want it?

Now!
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Nononono! Thats not specific enough...

What do we want?

A reduction in cessation of metabolism induced by massive transfer of kinetic energy and fluid loss from small projectiles arising from the controlled explosion of a measured quantity of synthetic low-explosive detonated by a smaller quantity of high explosive resulting in the rapid acceleration of a (normally metalic) projectile guided by a tube or other structure to assist the ballistic properties of said projectile whose energy exceeds but is not limited to 1 Joule on leaving aforementioned tube or other ballistic improvement structure!

When do we want it?

Now!
 
CFLarsen said:
Guns are far more dangerous than knives. Deal with it.
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Not only do I deal with it, I happen to agree with you. BUT, you'll have to admit that people killing people with guns ARE NOT law-abiding citizens. I am. You have to admit that people whose children are killing themselves or each other don't know how to safely care for their guns. I do. I also teach a Filipino martial art based on knife and stick fighting and I know how "misunderestimated" edged weapons actually are.

For the record, I'm all for holding gun owners responsible for "accidents" involving their firearms. I would heartily endorse licensing, mandatory pre-ownership classes in firearm safety or nearly any other fair legislation you could come up with. I have nothing to hide and have owned the same four firearms for over ten years. My "newest" firearms were left for me when my father died two years ago - one was a rifle given to him by my grandfather. Why should I give up family heirlooms because some people are vicious and others are stupid?
 
Mephisto said:
Not only do I deal with it, I happen to agree with you. BUT, you'll have to admit that people killing people with guns ARE NOT law-abiding citizens. I am. You have to admit that people whose children are killing themselves or each other don't know how to safely care for their guns. I do. I also teach a Filipino martial art based on knife and stick fighting and I know how "misunderestimated" edged weapons actually are.
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I am saying that up until the moment they start shooting, they are law abiding citizens. Then, what?

Mephisto said:
For the record, I'm all for holding gun owners responsible for "accidents" involving their firearms. I would heartily endorse licensing, mandatory pre-ownership classes in firearm safety or nearly any other fair legislation you could come up with.
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Define "fair" in this context.

Mephisto said:
I have nothing to hide and have owned the same four firearms for over ten years. My "newest" firearms were left for me when my father died two years ago - one was a rifle given to him by my grandfather. Why should I give up family heirlooms because some people are vicious and others are stupid?
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Do the numbers I showed you in any way change the way you feel about gun ownership and the dangers involved?
 
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