Gun Tragedy, 5th grader suicide

[DragonLady]

So, let me see if I got this right. YOU decide to own a gun and you think that your child is to pay for the rest of its life the consequencies of your decision? Interesting!

If I lived near a railroad track, and one of kids got hit by the train would it be my fault? Assuming I had done my part -taught them what happens to things that are hit, taught them the boundaries of where they were safe, and showed them that I would punish them everytime they got on the tracks or too near them is it my fault because I bought the house?

If one of them steals my car keys & goes for a joy ride that ends in a crash that permanently disables him/her, is it my fault? Once again, assuming I had done my part, and made it absolutely clear they are not allowed to drive?

If one of them decides to drink paint thinner, stick pins in the electrical sockets or do some equally stupid thing is that my fault?
Once again, assuming the child is old enough to know better, and that I've done my part to teach him or her not to?

If these things are in fact my fault, then I agree an accident with a gun would be, too. But if you would not prosecute me for buying the house, the car, the paint thinner or having electricity, then why would you do so because I owned a gun?

Frankly, if you didn't make the connection between the meat in your freezer and the victims of gun onwership, I wouldn't even think to post this but this is another thing that I find interesting in your logic. You don't hesitate to make any possible comparison in order to support your opinion about gun ownership.

Your original comment was:

Now tell me. If "your" child takes your gun and kills "mine" while playing, will it be because you trusted it, you didn't trained it or you didn't beat it enough while growing up? Tell me,should I care on what you did wrong or what you could have done better? For me there was only one simple option for you: Not to own a gun.

And what if I didn't own a gun exactly because I wanted to eliminate that risk, would you come and tell me not to feel devastated because in your freezer you have something that somebody shot and you feel grateful about it?

And I'm still not quite understanding exactly what you're asking, but I'll take a stab in the dark here.

First, if the circumstances were such that I depended on a gun for food, then certainly I would take that risk. The certainty of being hungry would outweigh the possiblity of a child -any child- being hurt.

**As far as food in my freezer = gun victims, I think that's an "animal rights" issue...and we can debate that anytime you'd like, but I don't think this thread is the place. Suffice to say I don't think animals are "victims" just because someone shoots them for dinner. I'd prefer using a gun & making it quick then trying to kill something by pelting it with rocks or driving it off a cliff. **

So far as my child killing yours...that could happen a thousand different ways, and none of them are good. If your child is electrocuted at my house, is it my fault? If your child drinks my child's drano-and-orange juice recipe is it my fault? If your child falls off my roof am I to blame for owning a ladder or not cutting down the tree or failing to pad the ground?

Or, turn that around. What if your kid is playing with my gun & shoots my kid? Is it your fault? After all, I could argue that your child's ignorence of gun safety caused the problem!

Now we are talking Dragon Lady , now we are talking. This is where my disagreement lays. Exactly. You are right! At the beginning we needed guns... and we used guns and we got involved in wars just because we visioned societies where guns wouldn't be necessary... We created Constitutions in order not to need guns... Don't tell me about the American Constitution that it allows arms. I know that you have the right to own arms. I wonder though why don't you use nucler arms to protect yourselves... they are legal and they are more effective, you know.

Okay...one at a time here.

"At the beginning we needed guns"

We still do. As much as I'd like to pretend we live in a peaceful & civilised society, the truth is we do not. People are still murdered every single day, and guns are the only really valid means of self defense that we have. Certainly some people are skilled enough with other weapons, and a few people have trained themselves to be a weapon, but for 90% of the population guns are the best choice.

Depending on the police to protect us doesn't work. It's already been pointed out that it's not their jobs to come running every time a citizen screams. But even when they do, they usually don't show up until the problem is over, they hand out "restraining orders" and tell us to call them back if we're in danger again.

Do you know the statistics for the number of people who are murdered & have restraining orders in their wallets or purses? Those little pieces of paper may look reassuring, but they do nothing to stop knives or bullets or poison. Yet many people who get them honestly believe that they're some kind of invisible shield against future problems -and take no other steps to make sure they have a future. For that, you can thank anti-gun activists who want you to believe the "police will take care of everything".

And...while I'm on the subject you may take comfort in the idea that if you're lying in a drawer at the morgue your friendly neighborhood police officers will be pursuing "justice" -and they may even get it. But that's not going to bring you back. I personally would rather go out in a firestorm that lights up the night than to lie down & allow some two-bit loser to take away what time I have on Earth. But that's just me.

And we've already covered the fact that some people still depend on guns for food.

"and we used guns and we got involved in wars just because we visioned societies where guns wouldn't be necessary... We created Constitutions in order not to need guns... "

I'm not so sure about that. I would love to live in a society where guns weren't neccesary; but the only way I see that happening is by losing the fundemental rights and freedoms that we have. In too many cases the only way to keep the peace is by shutting up while the herd rides over you or someone else -and I find that unacceptable. So, we have the next best thing...we have the freedom to disagree with anyone or anything, and the freedom to defend ourselves if someone decides our disagreeing is unacceptable. I'm unwilling to give up my rights and freedoms for "peace"; real or illusory.

"I wonder though why don't you use nucler arms to protect yourselves... they are legal and they are more effective"



I assume you're being facetious here.